More than one killer theory dismissed

[Errata]

Hello Fodsaks. Thanks.

"If you wanted someone dead and a serial killer was on the loose, what a perfect opportunity you have to deflect suspicion away form yourself."

Precisely! As has been observed elsewhere, "For one who has not lived even a single lifetime, you are a wise man, Van Helsing." (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

Did I ever mention my mom's friend? She had long dark hair and was shot in the head with a 44 caliber during the "summer of Sam". About 3 weeks before the Son of Sam was caught. She lived, and in fact was conscious when the ambulance showed up, so she was able to inform them that her attacker was some punk kid who freaked out when she wouldn't hand over her money. If she had died, she would have been included in Berkowitz's victims.

[lynn cates]

case in point

Hello Errata. Thanks. I am quite sorry about your friend. However, I am glad that she survived.

You are quite right. It is easy to lump events together superficially--even when they don't belong together.

Cheers.
LC

[RivkahChaya]

I understand the problem people have with saying that MJK is one of the C5, because her crime scene is so different, but I think it's reasonable to suppose that what happened to her might have happened to one of the earlier victims, had any of the others been able to offer JTR a private room.

I have a problem with setting MJK aside as the victim of someone else, because I don't think anyone would do that once, out of nowhere, and never do it again. That's why I don't like Barnett as a suspect. I think if he did kill her, we would have seen some attempt leaving the body in a more dignified manner, and that he would have confessed at some point, unless he was a complete sociopath, in which case, I think he would have committed another crime at some point. He lived until 1926, and quite a lot is known about him after the murders. Since he and Kelly weren't married, she wasn't pregnant, and she didn't have any money, I don't see any motive other than a psychopathic one, and I can't see him stopping at one victim, in that case.

The MJK crime scene was so singularly gruesome, even in the realm of serial killing, that I find it hard to believe if there were not another body similarly mutilated, in a bedroom, anywhere in Britain, Scotland yard would have found out at the time, and by now, we'd know about any body in Western Europe or the US.

Nichols --> Chapman --> Eddowes --> Kelly really looks like a crescendo to me, and if there's a sudden upswing, rather than a steady increase, a parabola, not a diagonal line, maybe there is another indoor victim between Eddowes and Kelly we don't know about, that was dismissed as domestic, because it was indoors, or not associated with JTR, because there was decomposition before the body was discovered, or maybe the body wasn't so badly ripped apart that it couldn't be removed and dumped somewhere. The prospect of gathering together all the pieces of Mary Jane Kelly may have been overwhelming, and the killer just left the scene as it was. Or maybe it was outside Whitechapel, because that is where JTR had to go to find someone with an indoor place. MJK wasn't actually in Whitechapel either, IIRC.

Or maybe JTR was in jail for something else, or ill, and he had a lot of pent-up excitement, and that's why Kelly was so much more ripped apart. He may have specially sought out someone indoors, because he had a lot of extra aggression. Or maybe it was just cold. A metal knife can suck the heat out of your hand pretty fast. I've done some emergency car work with a wrench in the winter, so I can tell you that.

Does anyone know how cold it was the night MJK was killed?

[Wickerman]

Does anyone know how cold it was the night MJK was killed?

http://www.casebook.org/victorian_london/weather.html

You're welcome...

[John Wheat]

There seem to be a number of proponents for the multiple killer theory but how many killers are we taking about 2,3,4 more than 4? I'd be interested to know how many killers the proponents of the multiple killer theory think they were. And also what these ripperologist's think of all the Torso Killings, I'm talking from 1873-1889, were these from one hand? And just how many violent killers people think they were in London in 1888? And wether it was unusual to have several violent killers in London at any one time in the late 1800's.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

The so-called C5 were not dispatched by a lone maniac known as Jack the Ripper.

Get over it.

Jack was the neat and tidy umbrella solution to a number of discrete events.

Regards,

Simon

[The Good Michael]

The so-called C5 were not dispatched by a lone maniac known as Jack the Ripper.

And my cat didn't kill all those animals in the yard and leave them on the stoop or by the garage or under the tree. The process was different for each little animal. One was just a baby, and another was just the head of a mouse. Had to have been a cabal of killers.

Mike

[John Wheat]

The so-called C5 were not dispatched by a lone maniac known as Jack the Ripper.

Hello Simon

So how many killers for the so-called C5 are we talking?

Cheers John

[Wickerman]

Lets face it no one is interested in Neat & Tidy anymore.

[Simon Wood]

Hi John Wheat,

That is the real mystery we need to solve.

Jack was merely razzmatazz.

Regards,

Simon

[The Good Michael]

Lets face it no one is interested in Neat & Tidy anymore.

This is an interesting idea, Jon. If we decide that there are so many variables involved in the murders and that each nuance can be accounted for by several of these variables, we have an unsettling idea of a killer who didn't know what M.O., signature, disorganized and organized killing meant. I am super comfortable taking all the untidiness and tying it together because the absolute minutia of detail doesn't mean anything to me. It is the attention to details after breaking down each murder into components that may or may not be relevant, that creates all theories. Holistically speaking, I find it all pretty neat and tidy, but as a teacher, I prefer generalization over constant compartmentalization that is often political, typically biased, and does nothing to paint a broader picture. But that's just me.

Mike

[lynn cates]

And all the choir doth say, "Amen."

Hello Simon. Nice post.

"Jack was the neat and tidy umbrella solution to a number of discrete events."

Now you're talking.

Cheers.
LC

[Roy Corduroy]

Well Lynn I give you credit. You come right out and suggest Jacob Isenschmidt murdered Polly Nichols and Annie Chapman. Then, of course, because was then institutionalized, he did not murder the other victims.

Absent that, though, the idea is rather amorphous, i e formless, shapeless, unformed, unshaped, unstructured.

Roy

[lynn cates]

chaos

Hello Roy. Thanks for the kind remarks.

Should we also add, Tiamut? (heh-heh) But I must play Marduke, then.

Lately, I think Kate is getting clearer.

Intrepid, eh?

Cheers.
LC

[El White Chap]

Now we're talking.