Once you have eliminated the impossible

[Robert St Devil]

She had Brights disease. Bloody urine or blood colored.

Very smart how ROSELLA and CURIOUS considered menopause. Would the disease affect whether or not she was sexually active at the time if its considered painful?

[GUT]

https://books.google.se/books?id=KZL...20women&f=true

According to this, women who drink alchohol have a later menopause and Kate was thin, but I don't think you could call her undernourished.

But simply the fact that she carried 12 bloodstained rags with her does point to the fact that she still needed them.

Best wishes
C4

The rags say the same thing to me, she needed them.

[Robert St Devil]

I googled "Victorian London farinaceous". It mostly returns sites related to infant foods, like our Cream of Wheats and Quaker Oat varieties. Theres a site on the 2nd page - Mothers Milk and infant death in Britain, circa 1900 -1940. Para. 20 lists brands of farinaceous (patent) foods - Allenburys, melins, Quaker oats, neaves, etc. they take about one and a half hours for a stomach to digest, so partially digested would mean less time.

Did st boloffs have a late nite kitchen?

[curious4]

Yepp. As I added to my last you are quite correct.

[Robert St Devil]

Clicked on VICTIMS>CATHERINE EDDOWES. Under Post Mortem report. The coroner talk about the contents of the stomach.

[curious4]

Post mortem report for Catherine Eddowes on this site.

I thought there was a 30 minute window of time missing from the time she left jail until shes spotted by lawende.

Nope, can only find inquest testimony.

No, you're right. Found it.

[Robert St Devil]

Post mortem report for Catherine Eddowes on this site.

I thought there was a 30 minute window of time missing from the time she left jail until shes spotted by lawende.

[curious4]

CURIOUS We really need a nutritionist or specialist to answer questions re: the stomach. Cooking-varieties.blogspot list 1 to 3 hours stomach digestion time for starches. STILL i would expect her coroner would have been able to identify bread since it was only partially digested farinaceous food. Most of the PM reports identify the foods specifically - fish, meat, potatos, etc. We would have to know how coroners used the word "farinaceous" since two coroners are going to use the same term for two separate murders committed on the same night.
Since it was in her stomach, she must have eaten recently - maybe within the hour. I will keep in consideration that the jailers may have fed her in the 30 minutes prior to her release; i dont rightly know London jail processing. But I thought DJAs soup answer for the Elizabeth Stride murder was really smart. Considering that she is leaving jail and midnite supper seems to be common, maybe she's looking for something to eat. Was there a "soup kitchen" between the jail and Duke St?

Hello Robert

Checking the definition of farinaceous food, it is described as something made of flour (don't think it's possible to eat flour by the spoonful, however hungry), so partially digested, it might not be easy to tell the difference between pastry or bread. At that time of night I don't know if there were soup kitchens open, but surely if the food was partially digested, she must have eaten sometime before she left the jail, there wouldn't have been time for it on the way to Mitre Square.

Best wishes
C4

Actually I have just taken your word for the contents of Kate's stomach, but can't seem to find any reference, apart from that the stomach contents were sealed up and later tested for any poisons or drugs. Perhaps you can enlighten me (so I don't have to plough through all my books).

[Robert St Devil]

Hello Robert

She might have scrounged a slice of bread somewhere, or even been given a cup of tea and a slice of bread at the police station. She was by all accounts a likeable woman.

C4

CURIOUS We really need a nutritionist or specialist to answer questions re: the stomach. Cooking-varieties.blogspot list 1 to 3 hours stomach digestion time for starches. STILL i would expect her coroner would have been able to identify bread since it was only partially digested farinaceous food. Most of the PM reports identify the foods specifically - fish, meat, potatos, etc. We would have to know how coroners used the word "farinaceous" since two coroners are going to use the same term for two separate murders committed on the same night.
Since it was in her stomach, she must have eaten recently - maybe within the hour. I will keep in consideration that the jailers may have fed her in the 30 minutes prior to her release; i dont rightly know London jail processing. But I thought DJAs soup answer for the Elizabeth Stride murder was really smart. Considering that she is leaving jail and midnite supper seems to be common, maybe she's looking for something to eat. Was there a "soup kitchen" between the jail and Duke St?

[curious4]

Being at least, possibly, somewhat malnourished maybe as early as 40.

https://books.google.se/books?id=KZLubBxJEwEC&pg=PA686&lpg=PA686&dq=average+age+of+menopause+in+undernourished+women&source=bl&ots=YujGH4LUpB&sig=pvM_nm-b1ghRzeHkS5eFuBpN2qo&hl=sv&sa=X&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAWoVChMIzYHE-suyyAIVgnNyCh3MWAyP#v=onepage&q=average%20age%20of%20menopause%20in%20undernourished%20women&f=true

According to this, women who drink alchohol have a later menopause and Kate was thin, but I don't think you could call her undernourished.

But simply the fact that she carried 12 bloodstained rags with her does point to the fact that she still needed them.

Best wishes
C4

[GUT]

Good point, but er, menopause doesn't happen overnight exactly - and the age range can be anything between 45 and 55 in my experience. And the rags were um "stained".

Best wishes
C4

Being at least, possibly, somewhat malnourished maybe as early as 40.

[curious4]

Wouldn't Kate have been verging on menopause, or going through it at 46? I know that her nutrition, drinking and way of life could have unduly affected this. I know that in general Victorian girls reached puberty later than nowadays and perhaps finished a little earlier. Anyway, she wasn't wearing drawers, so how could she have er....maybe a nappy arrangement? Sorry for going off topic!!

Good point, but er, menopause doesn't happen overnight exactly - and the age range can be anything between 45 and 55 in my experience. And the rags were um "stained".

As the the poor girl having no drawers, I've always thought this was the cause of her "Bright's disease" - from getting cold and contracting UTIs.

Not sure how the rags were worn, that's interesting. I will try to find out! Probably as you say nappy arrangement, tied on.

Best wishes
C4

[Rosella]

Wouldn't Kate have been verging on menopause, or going through it at 46? I know that her nutrition, drinking and way of life could have unduly affected this. I know that in general Victorian girls reached puberty later than nowadays and perhaps finished a little earlier. Anyway, she wasn't wearing drawers, so how could she have er....maybe a nappy arrangement? Sorry for going off topic!!

[curious4]

Damn! More salt in my sweet tea ROSELLA. I went round the corner for a late supper of carne asada at a tacqueria. Like most taco places a spanish soap opera was on the flat screen, and a guy with split personalities was strangling his sister. The restaurant is on a street where you will see women walking alone at night, mostly Mexican women. Its a good street, but it has its rowdies because of a couple of mexican cantina bars and a vacquero nite club. You can also get your fortune told too at a few shops. HAlfway thru my plate, a middle aged woman walked in. She was wearing a short blue jean skirt, an old tank top and carrying a large purse. She was pestering each table, hawking her handmade crochet bracelets. But you just knew... When i dont buy their "crafts" outside the ice house they usually turn to begging some money out of me.

So yes Catherine sews and she keeps her thimble and buttons in the pawn ticket tin. But i could also see her turning on a moments notice to begging. And also going round dark corners (but only casually).

I know that mealy foods were part of the English diet then. My contradiction is that Catherine would need to have eaten this farinaceous food/powder AFTER leaving prison since it was in her stomach, but noone ever came forward claiming to have sold her something to eat. So... either that was her last bit of (whatever food makes farinaceous powder in the stomach; also she smoked and cachous were breath fresheners for smokers) -or- LEather Apron gave it to her. The poison i speculated on was gelsenium.

But her or horse slaughterer would lead down good possibilities.

Hello Robert

She might have scrounged a slice of bread somewhere, or even been given a cup of tea and a slice of bread at the police station. She was by all accounts a likeable woman.

Er, not quite sure how to put this, but the pieces of cloth were almost certainly "hygiene articles", disposables with wings not having been invented. But you are right about the women making things to sell. Annie Chapman, for example, made and sold crochet articles, and all of the women would have known how to knit, sew and crochet (almost certainly, anyway). Kate used to sell song sheets at one time.

Best wishes
C4

[Robert St Devil]

Actually... Potato soup IS a smart answer. The brickmasons lodge?