Once you have eliminated the impossible

[GUT]

read t the same as c4 just too different

[curious4]

C4, obviously im new so im in that phase where you want to connect all the dots together. Part of the intrigue seems to be the stories that you develop in order to explain. The latest one that im trying to step away from, when it comes to an accomplice, is the story of the neck man & the body man. To simplify, ill call them Flashman and Speedicut. Flashman is the strangler, is the one who attacks Ada Wilson and Annie Farmer, is the thief, is the fornicator, drinks beer, ist the more daring of the two, and focuses more on the neck. Speedicut cuts the body because he is the Torso Killer which gives him anatomical knowledge of organ placements, is the less daring but more focused and efficient. Ha ha.

Rosella, im just trying to wrap my disbelief around the idea that, after Catherine Eddowes, Leather Apron is four for four when it comes to randomly selecting hookers on a moments notice who can take him directly to these darkest, gloomiest back yards that are not entirely ideal for sex but are absolutely perfect for committing murder. Elizabeth Stride takes him to a yard where he doesnt have to worry about anyone seeing him (apparently). And Catherine Eddowes takes him to a square yard where he doesnt have to worry about anyone hearing anything. Thats why i agree with C4 - theres something else missing here.

Hello Robert

One of the good things on these boards is that new people join in with fresh ideas and new ways of looking at the killings. I am not sure that JTR was also the torso murderer mainly because their methods were so different. JTR left the bodies where they lay and easily identifiable. The torso murderer (if there was one) hid the identities of the victims (no heads) and hid the body parts. I could be wrong though :-).

Best wishes
C4

[curious4]

So perhaps the killer was not interrupted, he just realized,...." it's too damn dark 'ere, a guy could lose a finger!"

Oops, dammit that was MY kidney!

Best wishes
C4

[Rosella]

Not sex. The threepence or four pence she would get for it. Kate had apparently been found with money on her (which was confiscated) when she went to the Mile End casualty ward several times before. Maybe he did offer her a drink or suggested a drink AND a transaction.

[Robert St Devil]

Leather Apron reminds me of boxing rings, and anvils, and all that other awesome stuff you mentioned Rosella... except for Piser.
I am sure i will come around. However I see the prostitution angle as being over played. Without gettimg into details there are only 3 possible transactions that could have happened in Mitre Square - with either the hand, the mouth or standing. And the last was going to be apparently weird if shes 5 foot and hes 5'7", wall or not. It could have been much simpler - like Catherines correct. There isnt a drink to be had at that hour. But she "runs into" Leather Apron headed in her direction, and he has alcohol because hes a drunkard, and he suggests they drink it in Mitre Square, and after prison she needs a drink. Its still clever on his part because he knows to do it in another jurisdiction since he had just murdered Elizabeth Stride in Dutfidld. Its a little puzzling that sex would be the first think on her agenda 30 minutes after her release. I mean, why risk going right back to jail for THAT?

[Rosella]

Jack the Ripper has a certain ring to it though, doesn't it? A combination of Jack the lad and Rip, because that was what he did. Leather Apron reminds me of poor old Piser and craftsmen making shoes and sitting on benches.

[Robert St Devil]

No DJA. I just prefer LEATHER APRON instead. I always thought JACK THE RIPPER was a dumb name. Almost as lame as being a serial killer and caling yourself MACK THE KNIFE. But also (if its true) out of everyone, the only one who called it right was J Best.

[Rosella]

Polly Nichols murder may have commenced with a blitz attack once they had passed the row of cottages. I don't think Nichols would have suggested the open street for a transaction.

Local prostitutes would have known local likely locales where they probably wouldn't be disturbed unless they were very unlucky. Without going into details the interactions between these women, who just needed a few pennies, and their clients wouldn't have involved a prolonged lovemaking session which might have brought others onto the scene. Five minutes if that, and it was probably over! I think that Eddowes' killer more than likely suggested Mitre Square as a good spot.

[Robert St Devil]

C4, obviously im new so im in that phase where you want to connect all the dots together. Part of the intrigue seems to be the stories that you develop in order to explain. The latest one that im trying to step away from, when it comes to an accomplice, is the story of the neck man & the body man. To simplify, ill call them Flashman and Speedicut. Flashman is the strangler, is the one who attacks Ada Wilson and Annie Farmer, is the thief, is the fornicator, drinks beer, ist the more daring of the two, and focuses more on the neck. Speedicut cuts the body because he is the Torso Killer which gives him anatomical knowledge of organ placements, is the less daring but more focused and efficient. Ha ha.

Rosella, im just trying to wrap my disbelief around the idea that, after Catherine Eddowes, Leather Apron is four for four when it comes to randomly selecting hookers on a moments notice who can take him directly to these darkest, gloomiest back yards that are not entirely ideal for sex but are absolutely perfect for committing murder. Elizabeth Stride takes him to a yard where he doesnt have to worry about anyone seeing him (apparently). And Catherine Eddowes takes him to a square yard where he doesnt have to worry about anyone hearing anything. Thats why i agree with C4 - theres something else missing here.

[DJA]

Ok, take 2.

I believe Leather Apron could murder on his own. He was a slasher by nature. Its that...

Surmise by Leather Apron that you are referring to John Pizer.

He was cleared and sued for libel.

[Rosella]

Eyes that have never been used to bright electric light would, IMO, adjust better to extremely dark conditions, than our eyes would. Also, what would prevent Jack from shoving a stub of candle and a small jar to hold it in his pocket before he set off from home?

[Robert St Devil]

I think i get what youre saying, DJA. And yea, it was a tough idea to form into a sentence. I guessed that much when i wrote it. Ok, take 2.

I believe Leather Apron could murder on his own. He was a slasher by nature. Its that...

[Wickerman]

Yes, it did seem to have been extremely dark. Diemschutz, for example, had to light a match to see what it was that had startled his horse.

So perhaps the killer was not interrupted, he just realized,...." it's too damn dark 'ere, a guy could lose a finger!"

[Sleuth1888]

I don't believe the killer had assistance in his enterprise in the form of an accomplice. This possibility strikes me as very unlikely, but of course it still remains a possibility nonetheless but personally I see no evidence to conclude that Jack was a two person team.

Thanks,
Sleuth

[DJA]

Its not that i think that Leather Apron couldnt have murdered on his own. He was a slasher by nature.

Prolly worth finding out the facts.

You clearly have no idea.