The FBI Profile of Jack the Ripper & it's usefulness

[Abby Normal]

HI Christer




Obviously, the Ripper could control his urges, to an extent, or he would have been caught.



True, but the same murder sites stats show that cutting throats was even more prevalent, and in most of the cases the killer certainly got into the act of throat cutting, judging by the deep cuts and nicks to the vertebrae.



That`s like saying an IRA bomber would plant a bomb in a pub, but would not throw a brick through the pub window he was passing that was full of squaddies.

I think the most obvious explanation is that she pissed him off by wasting his time (and perhaps money)because she would not go with him where he wanted, he lost is normal calm and attacked her prematurely, and with the interruption from scwartz, thought it best to skidaddle and try again under better circs.

[Jon Guy]

HI Christer

. But what you said was that he perhaps went for the kill, and nothing else. And that swears against what seems to be an urge within him.
Don´t get me wrong here - I am not necessarily against such a proposition.

Obviously, the Ripper could control his urges, to an extent, or he would have been caught.

. Whether true or not, we DO have the statistics from the other murder sites, pointing at a wish to eviscerate.

True, but the same murder sites stats show that cutting throats was even more prevalent, and in most of the cases the killer certainly got into the act of throat cutting, judging by the deep cuts and nicks to the vertebrae.

.
If his drive was the eviscerations, he need not have done anything at all "for the hell of it", but instead on account of his urges. If his main drive was NOT the wish to eviscerate/procure organs, then we are dealing with something else entirely. Which, of course, we may well be!

That`s like saying an IRA bomber would plant a bomb in a pub, but would not throw a brick through the pub window he was passing that was full of squaddies.

[Sam Flynn]

Yes, Dutfield´s Yard most certainly was a very risky place to kill, given the traffic in and out of the yard door into the club and the amount of people inside the club.

We know that - but did the killer know it?

It should have been rather obvious, Fish. Even the next most risky venue, the back yard of 29 Hanbury Street, didn't have a buzzing club-house attached to it.

[Fisherman]

Jon Guy:

That`s the thing, was the opportunity there to procure organs ?

No, that´s actually not the thing - of course he could have been interrupted. But what you said was that he perhaps went for the kill, and nothing else. And that swears against what seems to be an urge within him.
Don´t get me wrong here - I am not necessarily against such a proposition.

So, the shrink is saying the Ripper would only kill to procure organs?
Blimey, that must be why the FBI don`t catch that many serial killers.

That´s the doctor´s order, anyway. Whether true or not, we DO have the statistics from the other murder sites, pointing at a wish to eviscerate.

Surely, someone who does what the Ripper did, would not hesitate to kill just for the hell of it.

That depends. It is not necessarily all that simple, Jon. If his drive was the eviscerations, he need not have done anything at all "for the hell of it", but instead on account of his urges. If his main drive was NOT the wish to eviscerate/procure organs, then we are dealing with something else entirely. Which, of course, we may well be!

All the best,
Fisherman

[Jon Guy]

Well, going by what the shrinks tell us, his real incentive was not to kill. That was just a means to enable him to eviscerate and procure organs. So if the opportunity was there in Dutfield´s Yard (if, that is ...), then why didn´t he take it?
If the kill was not his incentive, then why stop at the killing itself?

That`s the thing, was the opportunity there to procure organs ?

So, the shrink is saying the Ripper would only kill to procure organs?
Blimey, that must be why the FBI don`t catch that many serial killers.

Surely, someone who does what the Ripper did, would not hesitate to kill just for the hell of it.

[Fisherman]

If Stride`s killer was the Ripper, no incentive is really needed, is it ?
She`s standing alone with that darkness just behind her ... perhaps that was the only incentive he needed.

Well, going by what the shrinks tell us, his real incentive was not to kill. That was just a means to enable him to eviscerate and procure organs. So if the opportunity was there in Dutfield´s Yard (if, that is ...), then why didn´t he take it?

If the kill was not his incentive, then why stop at the killing itself?

The best,
Fisherman

[Jon Guy]

I don´t exclude that possibility at all - but it opens up a Pandoras box when it comes to the killers incentives for killing, does it not?

If Stride`s killer was the Ripper, no incentive is really needed, is it ?
She`s standing alone with that darkness just behind her ... perhaps that was the only incentive he needed.

[Fisherman]

Perhaps, and the reason which is foremost in my mind, is that the killer was never intending to mutilate (for some of the reasons raised here) and just pushed her back two feet into the darkness between the gates, cut her throat and gone.

I don´t exclude that possibility at all - but it opens up a Pandoras box when it comes to the killers incentives for killing, does it not?

The best,
Fisherman

[Jon Guy]

Perhaps, and the reason which is foremost in my mind, is that the killer was never intending to mutilate (for some of the reasons raised here) and just pushed her back two feet into the darkness between the gates, cut her throat and gone.

[Fisherman]

Yes, Dutfield´s Yard most certainly was a very risky place to kill, given the traffic in and out of the yard door into the club and the amount of people inside the club.

We know that - but did the killer know it?

He would resonably be able to notice that it was club night. But did he also know that the front door onto Berner Street was not the only door leading into the club?

I think it may be a case of the killer thinking that whatever traffic there was to and fro the club would have passed through the front door. If so, that would leave the pitch dark yard empty and accessible for what he had in mind.

If he killed Tabram, then we can see that he did not mind having just a brick wall dividing himself from people inside the tenements. When he killed Chapman, he did not mind doing so in a spot where only a brick wall with a number of windows in it divided him from the tenants of 29 Hanbury Street.

But all in all, a brick wall dividing himself from the rest of the world would have been about the best he could hope for. Backyards and empty working yards may have been exactly what he looked for. At any rate, it was where we know he actively chose to kill. If he had preferred the relative security that lies in the open street with it´s offerings of two or more ways out to run for, then he could have killed in the street outside George Yard, out in Hanbury Street, Duke Street and Dorset Street.

He didn´t. He chose seclusion over fleeing possibilities, apparently. He would have had a reason for doing so, I think.

All the best,
Fisherman

[Abby Normal]

I agree
I think Berner street and dutfields yard under the circs that night was the most risky. which is probably why stride only had her throat cut and not also mutilated.

[Sam Flynn]

To my mind, Dutfield's Yard was possibly the riskiest of all the murder sites. The number of people known to have been in the area around the time of the murder seems rather higher than at any other location - and I'm just thinking about Berner Street itself, to say nothing of Dutfield's Yard or the (active) Club house adjoining it.

[John G]

Earlier that night between ninety to a hundred prople had come to hear a lecture at the club, though. When the lecture ended, near midnight, most of the clientele went home. It wasn't a very nice night, a bit damp and dismal, so if they didn't want to hang around singing and drinking they might as well have gone home.

And yes, most people in the cottages had probably retired for the night so the yard itself would have been dark. The darkness, once anyone had gone in through the gates and was passing between the dead walls of the club and no. 42 next door, must have been complete. Probably why a lot of the members used the front door of the club to exit, unless they ate a lot of carrots!

Hi Rosella,

Thanks for this very informative reply. This reinforces my opinion that the Stride murder location was more ideal than, say, Mitre Square, which as accessible on several sides and, as Fisherman has pointed out, regularly patrolled by two beat officers.

I have also checked the facts regarding the number of club members who stayed behind after a talk finished at around 11:30: Begg and Bennett (2012), suggest around 20-30, whilst Evans and Rumbelow (2006) state that 28 club members were searched and questioned.

Regards,

John

[Fisherman]

Hi,

Do you thinks that Dutfield Yard was a more ideal location than is sometimes credited?
Regards,

John

Actually, that´s not what I am saying. I am saying that it potentially had the advantage of offering a secluded place where the killer could hope to be able to spend a couple of minutes with the body without being disturbed.

Of course, it was a night on which the club was having a meeting, so that would have an impact on just how good a chance the killer did have to find seclusion in the yard - it would be less useful on such a night.

Otherwise, I think that Dutfields Yard would have been more or less the exact type of spot the killer was looking for and preferred. I think that those who suggest that a rationally functioning killer would not take the risk to use cul-de-sacs like Dutfields Yard are failing to see that this killer was not only looking for a spot to kill - he was looking for a spot to kill and eviscerate, and that calls for other ingredients than just a swift kill.

I believe that the killer will have been taken to a number of spots by a number of women, and that he will have chosen to kill in spots where he felt he had a good chance to do what he wanted to do - open his victims up and procure organs from them. In the Buck´s Row case, I am anything but certain that it was a coincidence that Nichols was found dead right outside the gates of Browns Stable Yard. I think that Nichols may have hoped to be able to sneak into the yard, but found the gates locked. Maybe they were not always locked, and maybe Nichols plied her trade in the area often and knew that.

Irrespective of what applies here, it may well be that Nichols wanted to look for some other spot, but the killer ran out of patience and killed her on the spot. And then he learned from the experience not to do that again, since it seems he was interrupted.

Before Buck´s Row (if he killed Tabram) and afterwards, he always chooses places of seclusion. And that´s something we may need to accept as a sign of a killer that know quite well that the open streets were not as useful venues as were backyards and working yards, closed rooms and staircases. In that context, Dutfield´s Yard fits in very well.

Let´s also acknowledge the fact that for somebody not aquainted with the club, the obvious choice for an entrance would be the front door leading directly out to Berner Street. So even if the club was noisy and even if there were open windows through which you could hear music and singing, it may have seemed to the killer that the yard would not be trafficked and that he would stand a fair chance of being left alone for some time with his victim in there.

All the best,
Fisherman

[Rosella]

Earlier that night between ninety to a hundred prople had come to hear a lecture at the club, though. When the lecture ended, near midnight, most of the clientele went home. It wasn't a very nice night, a bit damp and dismal, so if they didn't want to hang around singing and drinking they might as well have gone home.

And yes, most people in the cottages had probably retired for the night so the yard itself would have been dark. The darkness, once anyone had gone in through the gates and was passing between the dead walls of the club and no. 42 next door, must have been complete. Probably why a lot of the members used the front door of the club to exit, unless they ate a lot of carrots!