He Must Have Done Something Before

[Major Kong]

Hi Paul,I think we would have another series of similar murders in which ever country he was staying in.

Pink,
Yes we would....and I think until we can trace when and where Kelly went for the 39 years after he escaped Broadmoor it would be hard to trace such information down. Not impossible, but it would take major legwork/research. Also, if Kelly as I suspect, evolved into a more organized serial killer(as a lot do as they gain experience), he would begin to dispose of the bodies. Another thing to consider...America during this time(where Kelly said he was from 1891(2) or so to 1927) witnessed HUGE numbers of people moving from East to West and a frontier atmosphere existed. I think this would be prime area and time for a serial killer to move about....
Again...just my thoughts.
I am not saying it was Kelly...I think we'll never know who Jack was. But, I think he is HIGH on the suspect list.

-Paul

[pinkmoon]

Pink,
Yes we would....and I think until we can trace when and where Kelly went for the 39 years after he escaped Broadmoor it would be hard to trace such information down. Not impossible, but it would take major legwork/research. Also, if Kelly as I suspect, evolved into a more organized serial killer(as a lot do as they gain experience), he would begin to dispose of the bodies. Another thing to consider...America during this time(where Kelly said he was from 1891(2) or so to 1927) witnessed HUGE numbers of people moving from East to West and a frontier atmosphere existed. I think this would be prime area and time for a serial killer to move about....
Again...just my thoughts.
I am not saying it was Kelly...I think we'll never know who Jack was. But, I think he is HIGH on the suspect list.

-Paul

Hi Paul,is Druitt high on your list?

[The Good Michael]

I am not saying it was Kelly...I think we'll never know who Jack was. But, I think he is HIGH on the suspect list.

l

According to Kelly, he sailed to Vancouver, Canada in 1899. In Victoria (an area just next to Vancouver) 44 year-old Agnes Bing was murdered and her stomach ripped open and insides taken out. That was also in 1899 and was never solved.

Also according to Kelly, he sailed to New York in 1892. Carrie Brown was murdered in 1891, also unsolved.

Kelly's dates seem to be estimates, but as Brown was murdered in April, he would have had to have been off by at least 8 months if he was responsible for her death.

We know that after MJK's death, his mother-in-law were questioned about his whereabouts, and before that, Munro seems to have taken an interest in Kelly, though it may have been an unrelated interest.

Mike

[Major Kong]

Hi Paul,is Druitt high on your list?

Pink,
No...For me Druitt does not "fit". I think Druitt was being blackmailed for homosexual, possibly pedophelia and thus killed himself. Also, if memory serves he was out of London during the time of some of the murders.
I think Kosminski and Cutbush are better suspects than Druitt.

One thing that has sticks with me is that these women were "veteran" prostitutes. They knew the area and people. I think it highly unlikely they would have gone off with someone with a foreign accent, or someone that looked or acted suspicious in once the Ripper mania began. This leads me to think that the Ripper was either known to them, OR was extremely charming and had money to lure them. I also think Jack worked and had means(all the murders occurred on Weekends, or if one considers Tabram on Holidays)

[Major Kong]

According to Kelly, he sailed to Vancouver, Canada in 1899. In Victoria (an area just next to Vancouver) 44 year-old Agnes Bing was murdered and her stomach ripped open and insides taken out. That was also in 1899 and was never solved.

Also according to Kelly, he sailed to New York in 1892. Carrie Brown was murdered in 1891, also unsolved.

Kelly's dates seem to be estimates, but as Brown was murdered in April, he would have had to have been off by at least 8 months if he was responsible for her death.

We know that after MJK's death, his mother-in-law were questioned about his whereabouts, and before that, Munro seems to have taken an interest in Kelly, though it may have been an unrelated interest.

Mike

Mike,
The Carie Brown murder has issues with me. Granted it bears remarkable similarities to MJK killing. But the dates are an issue...true Kelly could have been off on his dates, or intentionally misleading for obvious reasons.
I was not aware of the Angnes Bing Killing. Interesting!

Check these out...from Kelly's "confession" he was these cities:
Galveston, TX: Dec 1892

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/galveston_daily_news/18921213.html

Denver, CO: November 1894...

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/atlanta_constitution/941116.html

and of course the famous New Orleans Axe man murders...

Food for thought
Paul

[Harry D]

One thing that has sticks with me is that these women were "veteran" prostitutes. They knew the area and people. I think it highly unlikely they would have gone off with someone with a foreign accent, or someone that looked or acted suspicious in once the Ripper mania began. )

I'd disagree with this. These women weren't upper-class escorts who could afford to be too choosy. They were prostitutes by necessity and needed to turn tricks to make ends meet, otherwise they could end up without a roof over their head or food in their belly. I doubt they would've been perturbed by a foreign accent or someone acting suspiciously.

[Major Kong]

Not choosy...careful. I think after the Chapman killing, and especially after the "double event"(I actually do not think Stride was a Ripper victim) these women would have been acutely aware of a murderer killing prostitutes on the streets of Whitechapel. Also the press was banging the drum of Xenophobia and anti-Semitism relentlessly.

BUT...you are right that desperation and I think drink will drive people to irrational decisions.

[pinkmoon]

Pink,
No...For me Druitt does not "fit". I think Druitt was being blackmailed for homosexual, possibly pedophelia and thus killed himself. Also, if memory serves he was out of London during the time of some of the murders.
I think Kosminski and Cutbush are better suspects than Druitt.

One thing that has sticks with me is that these women were "veteran" prostitutes. They knew the area and people. I think it highly unlikely they would have gone off with someone with a foreign accent, or someone that looked or acted suspicious in once the Ripper mania began. This leads me to think that the Ripper was either known to them, OR was extremely charming and had money to lure them. I also think Jack worked and had means(all the murders occurred on Weekends, or if one considers Tabram on Holidays)

Do you not think our killer lived alone he must have had somewhere to take the organs he removed.

[Major Kong]

Do you not think our killer lived alone he must have had somewhere to take the organs he removed.

Yes, I do think he lived alone. But, does not preclude the possibility that the Ripper was married, or had a family he lived with. There are numerous cases of serial killers living normal lives and having families. Gary Ridgway, Denis Rader and Robert Hansen are among the most obvious of this category. They managed to hide their activities for years from their families.

But I hold that Jack the Ripper was a loner, lived by himself and moved every 6-9 months(possibly sooner). I also think he possessed a trade which would allow him to make money wherever he went.

[pinkmoon]

Yes, I do think he lived alone. But, does not preclude the possibility that the Ripper was married, or had a family he lived with. There are numerous cases of serial killers living normal lives and having families. Gary Ridgway, Denis Rader and Robert Hansen are among the most obvious of this category. They managed to hide their activities for years from their families.

But I hold that Jack the Ripper was a loner, lived by himself and moved every 6-9 months(possibly sooner). I also think he possessed a trade which would allow him to make money wherever he went.

I think Druitt fits the bill single had a few quid had two places to escape to .

[leftkidney]

Thanks all, very interesting replies - Lynn, I agree we must be wary of generalising based on present day assumptions and those already caught etc, but really can you name me one SK, alive, dead, historical or whatever, where there have been absolutely no red flags from their early life at all?? I know there are folk queueing up to assure of us of the normality of Rader, Ridgeway and so worth, but quite clearly they were fledging sociopaths from day one.

[Major Kong]

I think Druitt fits the bill single had a few quid had two places to escape to .

Hey Pink,
I have a hard time accepting Druitt as the Ripper....not to say your wrong, I don't think ANY of us can prove one way or another who Jack the Ripper was.
I think that serial killers/psychopaths/sociopaths are the most extreme of narcissists. I just do not believe this type of person would commit suicide. Not saying that it's not possible, I just think unlikely.
Also, there is the matter of Druitt living too far away from the murders, being out of London the exact day after some of the murders. Yes, he could have taken trains to these locations on the mornings after the murders...but I just do not think it's likely.

[pinkmoon]

[QUOTE=Major Kong;300646]Hey Pink,
I have a hard time accepting Druitt as the Ripper....not to say your wrong, I don't think ANY of us can prove one way or another who Jack the Ripper was.
I think that serial killers/psychopaths/sociopaths are the most extreme of narcissists. I just do not believe this type of person would commit suicide. Not saying that it's not possible, I just think unlikely.
Also, there is the matter of Druitt living too far away from the murders, being out of London the exact day after some of the murders. Yes, he could have taken trains to these locations on the mornings after the murders...but I just do not think it's likely.[
Why would druitts family think him the ripper?Why did sir Melville choose him over kosminski?Why did druitts brother make no attempt at the inquest to keep quite the fact that the mother was in an asylum.Why did druitts brother make no attempt to cover up the fact he had got into serious trouble at school?.Why did the school pay him if he had been up to no good at the school?.last but not least why did Druitt kill himself ?

[Major Kong]

Druitt

[QUOTE=pinkmoon;300647]

Hey Pink,
Why would druitts family think him the ripper?Why did sir Melville choose him over kosminski?Why did druitts brother make no attempt at the inquest to keep quite the fact that the mother was in an asylum.Why did druitts brother make no attempt to cover up the fact he had got into serious trouble at school?.Why did the school pay him if he had been up to no good at the school?.

Pink,
I have no answers for these questions, nor do I think anybody does. The Ripper murders are a riddle wrapped in mystery inside an enigma.

All I can say is that in my humble opinion Druitt does not fit the mold of the type of individual who committed these murders.
So let's say we can agree to disagree on Druitt...

[pinkmoon]

[QUOTE=Major Kong;300648]

Pink,
I have no answers for these questions, nor do I think anybody does. The Ripper murders are a riddle wrapped in mystery inside an enigma.

All I can say is that in my humble opinion Druitt does not fit the mold of the type of individual who committed these murders.
So let's say we can agree to disagree on Druitt...

He certainly dosnt fit into the average serial killer mould I will agree on that one last thing though my great grandparents lived in Whitechapel during the murders and the story that comes through my family is that shortly after the murder of the women who had her bits put all round the room the killer drowned himself in the Thames .