He Must Have Done Something Before

[leftkidney]

Hi All, newbie here but have been following for a while, enjoying the Cross/Lechmere debate & just thinking -in terms of absolutes there's very little we agree on, except - regardless of what you believe about who, what, when etc, JTR MUST have committed some sort of more trivial crime before the murders, and so he must appear in the record somewhere, no?

[Wickerman]

Any ideas where to start looking; arson, mugging, threatening behaviour, garrotting, cruelty to animals, wife beating?

[GUT]

G'day leftkidney

Hi All, newbie here but have been following for a while, enjoying the Cross/Lechmere debate & just thinking -in terms of absolutes there's very little we agree on, except - regardless of what you believe about who, what, when etc, JTR MUST have committed some sort of more trivial crime before the murders, and so he must appear in the record somewhere, no?

Unless there was some precipitating event you are probably correct that there were other offences.

But they may simply not have come to the attention of the authorities and thus never recorded, one that springs to mind would be slapping the wife around, or killing animals, probably in 1880's not even reported let alone recorded. So he will only appear in a record if he was dealt with for the offence.

[Lechmere]

And lots of minor offence records are no longer available.

[Fisherman]

The world is full of bad people with no police records. The world is full of people who SHOULD have a police record but got away with what they did. This snippet is from the net:

On August 18th, 1979, Albert Fentress, thirty-nine, a history teacher at Poughkeepsie Middle School in New York, wrote two scripts concerning murder and sexual mutilation. Two days later he invited Paul Masters, eighteen, into his house for a drink. Fentress then assaulted, mutilated, and shot the boy. Afterwards, he cut the body into pieces and cooked and ate them. Fentress, who had no previous record, was committed to a mental institution indefinitely.

A more horrendeous murder cannot be imagined - and no previous record.

We can´t even bank on a killer like the Ripper having been known as a sinister character, but without a record. Gary Ridgway, the Green River killer, was regarded as a good guy by those who knew him. His wife, who had been gravely disappointed by her former husbands, said that she had never met a better and more considerate man.
Rader - good guy.
Armstrong - good guy.

There´s just no telling, no guarantees.

The best,
Fisherman

[The Good Michael]

We just don't have any records on Kosminski's childhood. We can assume some issues in his life based on the pogroms against Jews in Russia (Polish area) that may have set a tone for his adulthood, but we just don't know.

Mike

[pinkmoon]

I think we all have come into contact with someone who should have been dealt with by the police and locked up for a very long time(no mother in law jokes please)just as possible that our killer had no police record and he even opened doors for old ladies and gave his mum flowers.

[lynn cates]

assumptions

Hello LK. Welcome to the boards.

Your model depends on:

1. a single killer.

2. a 1990's style serial killer.

3. a stereotypical repeat offender.

4. an offender who was caught.

Why make these assumptions?

Cheers.
LC

[Observer]

Hello LK. Welcome to the boards.

Your model depends on:

1. a single killer.

2. a 1990's style serial killer.

3. a stereotypical repeat offender.

4. an offender who was caught.

Why make these assumptions?

Cheers.
LC

A 1990's style serial killer? What is a 1990's style serial killer? Are the following 1990's style serial killers?

Joseph Philipe
Vincenzo Verzini
Juan Diaz de Garayo
Jesse Pomeroy
Eusebius Pieydagnelle
Francisco Geurrero

[The Good Michael]

.

We can´t even bank on a killer like the Ripper having been known as a sinister character, but without a record. Gary Ridgway, the Green River killer, was regarded as a good guy by those who knew him. His wife, who had been gravely disappointed by her former husbands, said that she had never met a better and more considerate man.
Rader - good guy.
Armstrong - good guy.

Rader: Tortured animals as a child. As a dogcatcher, overly zealous.

Ridgway: Insatiable sexual appetite, frequenter of prostitutes while married, religious nut

Not such good guys.


Mike

[Major Kong]

Hey all,
Long time reader, new to posting. Been interested in the Ripper for 20+ years...
Some things over time have struck me as worth considering:
If we proceed on the assumption that the murders were committed by one individual(which I subscribe to) then what known serial killers can we compare the Ripper to, and what can we learn from these comparisons?
I think one in particular killer we can compare Jack to is Ted Bundy. The reason being is the sexual nature of the crimes and the apparent hatred of women in both cases.
I also should throw out there that I am a supporter of the James Kelly as a VERY viable suspect. Reason being is that like Bundy he escaped custody(demonstrating intelligence, cunning, and patience) and like Bundy, he moved around a lot(after his escape).

[The Good Michael]

Hey all,
Long time reader, new to posting. Been interested in the Ripper for 20+ years...
Some things over time have struck me as worth considering:
If we proceed on the assumption that the murders were committed by one individual(which I subscribe to) then what known serial killers can we compare the Ripper to, and what can we learn from these comparisons?
I think one in particular killer we can compare Jack to is Ted Bundy. The reason being is the sexual nature of the crimes and the apparent hatred of women in both cases.
I also should throw out there that I am a supporter of the James Kelly as a VERY viable suspect. Reason being is that like Bundy he escaped custody(demonstrating intelligence, cunning, and patience) and like Bundy, he moved around a lot(after his escape).

You are going to get some heat for your comparison to Bundy and the sexual nature of the crimes. Kelly is a great choice. Look at his letters and see the sociopathic manipulation therein.

Mike

[pinkmoon]

Hey all,
Long time reader, new to posting. Been interested in the Ripper for 20+ years...
Some things over time have struck me as worth considering:
If we proceed on the assumption that the murders were committed by one individual(which I subscribe to) then what known serial killers can we compare the Ripper to, and what can we learn from these comparisons?
I think one in particular killer we can compare Jack to is Ted Bundy. The reason being is the sexual nature of the crimes and the apparent hatred of women in both cases.
I also should throw out there that I am a supporter of the James Kelly as a VERY viable suspect. Reason being is that like Bundy he escaped custody(demonstrating intelligence, cunning, and patience) and like Bundy, he moved around a lot(after his escape).

Hi Kong,I think James Kelly is a fantastic person to propose as jack the ripper in fact if there wasn't one slight little detail I would have him as my number 1 the slight detail is in fact a major detail at what stage did James Kelly stop becoming a homicidal manic and get better .

[Major Kong]

Hi Kong,I think James Kelly is a fantastic person to propose as jack the ripper in fact if there wasn't one slight little detail I would have him as my number 1 the slight detail is in fact a major detail at what stage did James Kelly stop becoming a homicidal manic and get better .

Hey Pink,
I do not think he ever did get better. Serial killers, unless grounded by ties(usually because they have families) tend to move around from place to place. Examples of this are Ted Bundy, Henry Lee Lucas(there is no idea of how many and who he killed, but is is not disputed he was a killer), Paul John Knowles(The Casanova Killer), and there are more examples of this especially in regards to some of the South American serial killers.
Now, Dennis Rader(BTK) did stop for periods which extend from 3 years to another almost being 8 years.
So...I do not think he got better. I think he lurked in an area, then moved on when things got sticky or need propelled him on to a new location.

Just my opinion...which really means not much in the scheme of things and in the company of such great Ripperologists!
-Paul

[pinkmoon]

Hi Kong,I think James Kelly is a fantastic person to propose as jack the ripper in fact if there wasn't one slight little detail I would have him as my number 1 the slight detail is in fact a major detail at what stage did James Kelly stop becoming a homicidal manic and get better .

Hi Paul,I think we would have another series of similar murders in which ever country he was staying in.