39 wounds

[The Rookie Detective]

The fact that 38 stabs hit several major organs but did not immediately kill Martha might have necessitated the final "bayonet" thrust, but..for my money, that last bayonet stab was likely someone elses weapon, maybe used by the killer, or maybe supplied to him if a buddy came looking for him. This night had soldiers wearing short swords, bayonets, knives, military uniforms....the Bank Holidays allowed soldiers to carry arms openly. Again, for me, I dont see it being likely that he stabs 38 times then suddenly he remembers he has a larger blade.... which he then uses once. I think he used a penknife because thats all he had on him. But someone had a bayonet style weapon with them, and wanted this attack to be over.

That's a very fair point.

I find it interesting that multiple victims were targeted over Bank Holidays, especially when combined with the idea that soldiers were permitted to carry arms openly. I didn't know of that and I think it makes for another interesting line of inquiry. It's not the first time that a Soldier has been implicated in the murders.

Michael, do you think it could have been the other way around? Could a soldier (a client) have stabbed her with his bayonet, and then fled, leaving her for dead...and then along comes the Ripper, who sees her on the floor, and just starts stabbing her, because for him it was all about the mutilation and cutting.


Just a thought

RD

[c.d.]

Is it realistic that he was actually keeping count as he was cutting?

Oh ****, was that last one 27 or 28?

c.d.

[The Rookie Detective]

Is it realistic that he was actually keeping count as he was cutting?

Oh ****, was that last one 27 or 28?

c.d.

That's a fair point

I'd say, only if she was already dead


RD

[Michael W Richards]

Michael, do you think it could have been the other way around? Could a soldier (a client) have stabbed her with his bayonet, and then fled, leaving her for dead...and then along comes the Ripper, who sees her on the floor, and just starts stabbing her, because for him it was all about the mutilation and cutting.

Just a thought

RD

I believe that the Ripper wasnt in this game to stab anyone, I believe he did what he did because he had compulsions that involved cutting into a human body, slicing and extracting. As for which came first, I see the penknife as most likely the chicken, and the bayonet as the egg. Or the penknife the Horse and the bayonet the Cart.

That one bayonet wound was enough to kill her. I think it was a matter of finality...ending this episode and getting the hell out of there, and I think the second weapon came from a second person.

[drstrange169]

It is inconceivable to me that the "penknife" wounds were inflicted before the stab to the heart. Mrs Tabram would have been fighting for her life, blood splatter would be everywhere and she would have defensive wounds.
If the heart wound wasn't inflicted first, she must have been rendered insensible, but there is no medical evidence to back that up. I doubt you will find any forensic expect who would endorse the notion that she was alive and conscious whilst the 28 stab wounds were being inflicted.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Is it realistic that he was actually keeping count as he was cutting?

Oh ****, was that last one 27 or 28?

c.d.

[Michael W Richards]

It is inconceivable to me that the "penknife" wounds were inflicted before the stab to the heart. Mrs Tabram would have been fighting for her life, blood splatter would be everywhere and she would have defensive wounds.
If the heart wound wasn't inflicted first, she must have been rendered insensible, but there is no medical evidence to back that up. I doubt you will find any forensic expect who would endorse the notion that she was alive and conscious whilst the 28 stab wounds were being inflicted.

If youll recall we are talking about a slightly heavyset woman and a penknife. The penknife would only have a cumulative effect but not cause her to succumb immediately. A close attack, rapid stabbing, maybe even a hand over her mouth....this was a quiet kill according to witnesses. The second man comes looking for the killer, sees the woman slumped with blood spatters on her and his mate holding the knife. She is still breathing, cant take a chance she will survive this and send his mate to jail for life, so he draws a bayonet from his hip and plunges it towards her heart..to both stop any suffering and silence a witness once and for all.

Thats my take on this. 2 men. Soldiers. Armed with such a weapon due to Bank Holiday rules. And military bonds between soldiers is as tight a bond as any family one, maybe more so. Protect his stupid mate for making a stupid mistake. They did interview Soliders and they did work with Poll to try and get an ID. So, this isnt a new idea from me, its contemporary.

[drstrange169]

"A close attack, rapid stabbing, maybe even a hand over her mouth ..."

One hand over her mouth, one hand stabbing, means Mrs Tabram's hands and legs are free to defend herself. The wounds ranged from the neck to the genitals and all over in between. No, the scenario simply doesn't work in real life.

[drstrange169]

Also, if the killer forcibly put their hand over her mouth, there would bruising as there was with Mrs Nichols.

[Marilyn]

It's a statement to tell the police he/she/they weren't Jewish. Religious transcripts state that a jew can inflict 36 acts of violence and no more. Everything Ripper(s) did had meaning. My relation was the landlady. Look out for the book the "The Landlady" Dec this year. It will close the case.