How Fast An Operator Was JtR?

[lynn cates]

Por que?

Hello Gareth. Thanks.

Why, particularly?

Cheers.
LC

[Sam Flynn]

Hello Colin. Thanks for starting this thread.

I think you are spot on. If Kate was NOT seen by the trio, that would lengthen the time frame to near a quarter hour.

If he'd had 15, or even 10, minutes at his disposal, Lynn, I should expect Eddowes' mutilations to have been far more severe.

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo all.

Very good idea for a thread. Seems that the Eddowes murder is the one. I would not be so fast to dismiss the sighting by Lawende and co. Fact is there was a man and woman but a short walk away around the right time. Could've not been the right couple, but it sure does sync up rather well. Something about horse mouths comes to mind. About how long of a walk was it from the police station to Mitre Square anyways? I don't see why the murder could not have occured in that span of time. With the, how you say, sloppiness of the job, especially when compared to the two previous also with mutilations, it makes some sense at least. So maybe "JTR" didn't work fast everytime, but it appears there is a good possibilty Eddowes murderer did work very fast. Whether or not Eddowes' murderer was responsible for other similar murders is another matter of course.

[John Wheat]

The evidence does seem to suggest that Jack was a quick operator.

[lynn cates]

longer time

Hello Colin. Thanks for starting this thread.

I think you are spot on. If Kate was NOT seen by the trio, that would lengthen the time frame to near a quarter hour.

Cheers.
LC

[Sam Flynn]

Does the notion of Jack as a fast worker have any factual basis or should it be dismissed as untenable?

He was definitely a fast worker, Bridewell. No question.

[Sam Flynn]

Kelly: Injuries too numerous to mention but which the police surgeon thought could not have been accomplished in less than two hours.

It was a crude job, to say the least. The whole Kelly "operation" could easily have been finished in under 30 minutes, in my estimation.

There's an old posting where I show my workings-out here: http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.p...25&postcount=2

[Bridewell]

That's not a very catchy title. The question I am seeking to pose is whether, if there was indeed a JtR, he was the lightning-fast operator that the witness evidence might seem to suggest.

I ask because (with reference to the so-called C5) (all times approximate):

Nichols: We don't have any real time parameters for the murder so it (including the abdominal damage) may or may not have been rapidly accomplished.
(2.30am to 3.45am).

Chapman: Similar situation
(1.45am to 5.30am).

Stride: Very narrow time-span but also no mutilation beyond the injury inflicted in order to cause death
(12.45am to 1am).

Eddowes: There was mutilation to the face and abdomen as well as organ removal. This appears, based on Lawende's evidence, to have been accomplished within an incredibly narrow time frame
(1.35am to 1.44am).

Kelly: Injuries too numerous to mention but which the police surgeon thought could not have been accomplished in less than two hours. Time frame difficult to determine with certainty but, if Cox is accepted as being reliable, potentially ample
(11.45pm to 10.45am). Obviously rather less if credence is given to the Hutchinson account, but surely still more than sufficient.

It seems to me that the whole idea of JtR the lightning-fast knife wielder is wholly dependent on the woman seen by Lawende and his companions having been Eddowes rather than another individual of similar appearance. If the possibility of error is taken into account the window of opportunity widens from the time of her release from Bishopsgate to the time of discovery
(1am to 1.44am).

I find it easier to believe that Lawende's identification of the woman seen as Eddowes was mistaken than that her killer allayed her fears, killed her, carried out the mutilations and organ removal and got clean away unobserved within the space of 9 minutes.

My (tentative) contention is that JtR (if there was such an entity) rather than having any defined mutilation limits in mind, hacked away until he feared discovery and then took to his heels - that he was constrained by time rather than by objective if that makes sense.

Does the notion of Jack as a fast worker have any factual basis or should it be dismissed as untenable? Any thoughts?