How Fast An Operator Was JtR?

[Jon Guy]

My estimates for the length of attack times for all the Whitechapel murder victims, whoever killed them.

Smith - 2 mins
Tabram - 5 mins
Nichols - 3 mins
Chapman - 4 mins
Stride - 1 min
Eddowes - 4 mins
Kelly - 20 mins
Mylett - 1 min
McKenzie - 2 mins
Torso - 3 hrs
Coles - 1 min

[Lechmere]

I'd say 5 mins tops except Kelly.

[Elenahoyos66]

I'd say 15 to 20 minutes tops.

He seemed to have attacked, knocked out, killed.

[lynn cates]

take

Hello GUT. Thanks.

"we're just not sure if missing from the room or just missing from the body."

Well, that's my take.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

All the organs that were removed from the body were arranged around the bed, and none were described as 'absent'.

Only the heart was described as absent, and not found on the bed, in the room, nor in the fireplace.

From this we can deduce what 'absent' meant.

[GUT]

G'Day Lynn

Yes I'd read that. I just thought from some of the posts that I had missed something. So nothing has changed then, the heart was Absent, we're just not sure if missing from the room or just missin from the body.

GUT

[Wickerman]

The fact that Phillips, Bond & Macdonald felt the need to return to Millers Court on Sat. afternoon to sift the ashes, after the autopsy conducted that same morning, strongly suggests something was missing.

[lynn cates]

Echo

Hello Colin. Thanks.

I think there is an "Echo" report of 13 November stating as much. I think the tenor was that, "In spite of what you may have read . . ."

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

Hello GUT. Thanks.

The blurb is found here--also the counter blurbs.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5714

It is STILL unclear whether her heart were missing. NOT unclear that Annie and Kate had absent parts--which was my point.

Cheers.
LC

Hi, Lynn,

Thanks for that link. The following is quoted from Wolf Vanderlinden's post on that thread:

There were newspaper reports, the Daily Telegraph 13 November for example, which did actually state that some “bodily organ” was missing while the Observer, 18 November, stated flat out that the killer “cut the woman’s heart out and carried it away.”

I don't think (and am sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong ) that Bond's report was in the public domain when the Observer article was published so, unless their source, whatever its nature, was similarly ambiguous I think it more likely than not that Kelly's heart was completely absent (i.e. removed from the scene by the perpetrator).

[lynn cates]

point

Hello GUT. Thanks.

The blurb is found here--also the counter blurbs.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5714

It is STILL unclear whether her heart were missing. NOT unclear that Annie and Kate had absent parts--which was my point.

Cheers.
LC

[GUT]

G'Day Lynn

Pardon my ignorance but what blurb says this

The blurb, however, was to the effect that ALL parts were accounted for.

I freely accept I may have missed it but I have only ever seen the heart referred to as absent but I've never been clear if this meant from the body or the room.


GUT

[lynn cates]

account

Hello Colin. Thanks.

Alas, this is yet another to go without resolution.

The blurb, however, was to the effect that ALL parts were accounted for.

I suppose that there is no dispute that MOST were accounted for?

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

Hello Colin. Thanks.

"Are you saying the heart was absent from the pericardium but not from the room?"

Given later published remarks, that seems correct.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Can you point me in the right direction for those published remarks please. I've always seen this as one of many issues which can be argued either way - it would be good to see one of them resolved.

[lynn cates]

yes

Hello Colin. Thanks.

"Are you saying the heart was absent from the pericardium but not from the room?"

Given later published remarks, that seems correct.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

disparity

Hello Amanda. Thanks.

"In the case of Stride it may be possible that someone else did it but it seems a terrible coincidence, then, that on the very same night there were two men out there, within walking distance of one another, cutting women's throats."

Actually, over in Westminster (2 miles from Kate) Mrs. Brown had HER throat cut as well. Coincidences DO happen.

"There is nothing to suggest that they were not done by the same person. . ."

Nothing at all?

Polly and Annie had deep, parallel neck cuts; not Kate.

Polly and Annie had facial bruising; not Kate.

Polly and Annie had lacerated/protruding tongues; not Kate.

Polly and Annie had abdominal cuts ALL downward; not Kate.

Polly and Annie had no cut clothing; not Kate.

So perhaps there IS evidence of disparity?

Cheers.
LC