Torsoman vs The Ripper

[Debra A]

Here's a link to some of Professor Elizabeth Hurren's writing (mentioned by Trevor) on body dealers and the circumstantial links to Dorset Street and Jack the Ripper and his victims for anyone who hasn't read it before:

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/the-torsos/27999-school-of-anatomy/page2

For anyone interested (as if you haven't been punished enough! ) - here is also a link to a thread on JTRForums dealing with body selling from the workhouse, based on workhouse records dealing with the subject, and discussion of such practices being relevant (or not) in relation to the torso cases 87-89.

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/the-torsos/27999-school-of-anatomy/page2

[Abby Normal]

Thanks Abby. As long as others see it then it doesn't bother me
I'll always be the mouthy subordinate in Trevor's eyes.

your subordinate to no one. : ) and thanks again for your participation and all the info!!

[Trevor Marriott]

The purpose of medical schools obtaining bodies was to teach their students about anatomy. That means they needed whole bodies, not random severed body parts. Fortunately, the the Anatomy Act of 1832 had made it easy for medical schools to obtain whole bodies with zero risk that they would be helping a murderer conceal and profit from their crimes.

There were never enough organs for medical research which it why body dealers prospered

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Trevor Marriott]

Excellent question FrankO
I imagine that any seller of illegally removed organs from a woman who'd died during a botched abortion would want to maximise their profits given the double risk they were taking dismembering the corpse and dumping it in the Thames etc. , plus why not just illegally sell the body as a whole and minimise the risk of being caught dumping the remains?

There is no conclusive evidence as to who disposed of the remains or where or when

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Abby Normal]

There is no conclusive evidence as to who disposed of the remains or where or when

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

there is no conclusive evidence as to who disposed of your brains or where or when.

[Fiver]

I'll always be the mouthy subordinate in Trevor's eyes.

Ironic, considering his real rank.

[Fiver]

The trade in bodies and organs was illegal so there was no such thing as a bill of sale.

I'm afraid that Elizabeth Hurran disagrees with you.

"There was a certificate of death; a certificate of body removal; a certificate of notification to the hospital; a certificate of undertaking for removal; a certificate of receipt by the anatomists, a notification to the Anatomy Inspectorate that the body had arrived; a return certificate saying that the dissection was complete; a notification of removal for undertaking; a certificate of collection; a certificate to request a Christian burial; a certificate for the funeral; and, finally, a certificate of internment."

[Trevor Marriott]

I'm afraid that Elizabeth Hurran disagrees with you.

"There was a certificate of death; a certificate of body removal; a certificate of notification to the hospital; a certificate of undertaking for removal; a certificate of receipt by the anatomists, a notification to the Anatomy Inspectorate that the body had arrived; a return certificate saying that the dissection was complete; a notification of removal for undertaking; a certificate of collection; a certificate to request a Christian burial; a certificate for the funeral; and, finally, a certificate of internment."

There was no bill of sale where body dealers and their illegal activities were concerned, under the terms of the anatomy act those provisions you have stated did apply but very rarely adhered to.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Trevor Marriott]

there is no conclusive evidence as to who disposed of your brains or where or when.

Naughty naughty Abby, now go sit on the naughty step and write 100 lines I must stop being a numpty !!!!!!!!!

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Debra A]

Ironic, considering his real rank.

Wow. Thanks. I haven't been around so much for the past year so completely missed this.

Debs
Little Office Paper Replenishment Co-ordinator.

[FrankO]

There is no conclusive evidence as to who disposed of the remains or where or when

How does 'who', 'where' or 'when' answer the questions that I posed, Trevor?

They were:
How would you explain that only some but not all body parts and organs were sold (but, instead, were left to be discovered)?
Wouldn't that have been 'money thrown away' for the party not selling them?

You can answer the second question with a simple 'yes' or 'no' and a suggestion for an answer to the first might be something like 'possible motives that I see are...'. But 'There is no conclusive evidence, etc.' simply is a non-answer, a waste of space, really.

[Trevor Marriott]

How would you explain that only some but not all body parts and organs were sold (but, instead, were left to be discovered)?
Wouldn't that have been 'money thrown away' for the party not selling them?

Female body parts and heads were more sought after and easily obtainable and easily sold than their male counterparts and it would have been easier to remove those body parts for a quick and easy sale and the remains of the torsos were left to those in possession of the remaining torsos to dispose of them.

I keep repeating this but where is the evidence to show they were all murdered ? the answer is there is none

So the answer based on that is that you nor Debra or any of the others who are insistent that these torsos were the subject of murder cannot prove that to be correct so they should be categorised using modern-day terminology as "died under suspicious circumstances"

www.trevormarriott,co.uk

[Abby Normal]

Naughty naughty Abby, now go sit on the naughty step and write 100 lines I must stop being a numpty !!!!!!!!!

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

lol. i actually remember having to write ..I will not talk in class... a hundred times in elementary school.

[Debra A]

So the answer based on that is that you nor Debra or any of the others who are insistent that these torsos were the subject of murder [/B][/U]

www.trevormarriott,co.uk

I haven't insisted any such thing. My beef is your insistence that they weren't murders without providing the same sort of evidence you demand from others and despite all the valid points made against your vague and generalised theory by many many posters.

[FrankO]

Female body parts and heads were more sought after and easily obtainable and easily sold than their male counterparts and it would have been easier to remove those body parts for a quick and easy sale and the remains of the torsos were left to those in possession of the remaining torsos to dispose of them.

So Trevor, you're saying that it was female body parts that were sold and that the parts that weren't sold were dumped. Seeing that this is not something we didn't already know, this is no answer to either of my questions - again.

I keep repeating this but where is the evidence to show they were all murdered ? the answer is there is none

Whatever my opinion is on the subject, it has nothing to do with the questions I asked, but all to do with your opinion. For which there's no evidence either.