Did the Ripper want to be caught?

[El White Chap]

There were plenty of opportunities for the ripper to be caught in the act, yet nobody ever actually reported seeing the ripper committing the murders. That has to some degree demonstrate a certain amount of carefulness.

There are however several if not quite a few eye witness accounts and descriptions of men (likely to have been the ripper) seen with the victims. For example, Joseph Levy saw a man with Kate by Church passage shortly before her death and another being George Hutchinson, giving an almost suspiciously detailed account of a man seen with MJK hours before her remains were discovered. It would appear from those witnesses and their respective police statements that there were indeed sightings of the ripper, just none solid enough to pinpoint the rippers identity.

[Nick Spring]

I think he was more reckless than actually wanting to be caught.If he REALLY wanted to be nicked he would've been.I reckon he would have just waited around at the scene of one of the crimes until the coppers showed up to arrested him "red handed".A modern equivilent would be Mark Chapman,John Lennons killer.He had no desire to escape and just hung about till the police came to arrest him.Simple,yes?

Maybe he just couldn't help himself but maybe self aware that if he was caught then that was part of the risk.

The attacks had to happen he was driven by an opportunity and had to act out his fantasy but maybe he was hoping to be caught in his madness.

Nick

[El White Chap]

The ripper in all probability would have been caught in the act, 'red handed', if they weren't so bothered about capture. They would have to have been at least loosely aware of timings/time limits and made gambled, calculated strikes within those time factors. Polly had no organs removed as far as the coroner report states, we can't be sure if that's because the rippers MO wasn't fully developed at said time OR they were interrupted before the full mutilations and trophy taking was complete. The same can be argued for Liz as being an 'incomplete' murder, that's of course if you subscribe to her murder being done by the same hand.

[Steve F]

Displaying the victims was part of the thrill.

But the windows of opportunities with Chapman and Eddowes, short time to act. I wonder was he aware of these time limits.

It must have so close to people moving about in 29 Hanbury Street and did he know the regularity of the Police beats around Mitre Square.

It just feels as if he didn't care if he was caught, lost in his sexual fantasy, oblivious to all.

Nick

I think he was more reckless than actually wanting to be caught.If he REALLY wanted to be nicked he would've been.I reckon he would have just waited around at the scene of one of the crimes until the coppers showed up to arrested him "red handed".A modern equivilent would be Mark Chapman,John Lennons killer.He had no desire to escape and just hung about till the police came to arrest him.Simple,yes?

[Nick Spring]

Displaying the victims was part of the thrill.

But the windows of opportunities with Chapman and Eddowes, short time to act. I wonder was he aware of these time limits.

It must have so close to people moving about in 29 Hanbury Street and did he know the regularity of the Police beats around Mitre Square.

It just feels as if he didn't care if he was caught, lost in his sexual fantasy, oblivious to all.

Nick

[El White Chap]

The ripper knew darn well that they'd have to take considerable risks in committing those atrocities in public areas with 'traffic'. That was part of the thrill IMO, but the most important thing, what is key here is that these women were discovered in these 'exposed' places making more of an impact than if they were found in more secluded spots. It's all about shock value.
Just my tuppence...

[Penhalion]

You need to be careful in using Heirens for comparison with any serial killer. There is significant doubt as to his actual guilt in the Lipstick Murders. While he was certainly no choirboy, the evidence connecting him to the murders is questionable in the extreme and the methods used to elicit his confession are basically torture.

Best policy would be to exclude him when developing a profile of a theoretical serial killer.

[Nick Spring]

Quite possibly, all part of his erotic mania.

[Paddy]

I dont wish to sound gross here, but I wonder if he got off on the smell of their insides? It must have stunk !

Pat....................

[Nick Spring]

Yes this was his sex in public, acting out his every fantasy.

Nick

[Tecs]

A fair point.

I guess it's difficult to see things from the killers perspective or his minds eye.

But a strong part motive for the killings must surely be the thrill from such brazenness.

cheers

Nick

Hi Nick.

It might be that he enjoyed the thrill of being caught, just like couples who have sex in public say that that is a big part of the thrill, (no comment!)

On the subject of motive or lack of it, this is where rational reasoning doesn't work. It doesn't matter if a motive makes no sense to us. If he was killing in order to stop the green rabbits on Saturn from launching an attack on earth, that was the motive for him and it was real to him.

Regards,

[Nick Spring]

A fair point.

I guess it's difficult to see things from the killers perspective or his minds eye.

But a strong part motive for the killings must surely be the thrill from such brazenness.

cheers

Nick

[Fisherman]

Yes perhaps not wanting to be caught but definitely the thrill heightened by the possibility.

I just think the Chapman and Eddowes murders are just so risky and with limited time to achieve.

Just maybe he didn't care of he was caught which introduces non rational thinking into the uquation.

cheers

Nick

Or a different rationality - his own.

The best,
Fisherman

[Nick Spring]

Yes perhaps not wanting to be caught but definitely the thrill heightened by the possibility.

I just think the Chapman and Eddowes murders are just so risky and with limited time to achieve.

Just maybe he didn't care of he was caught which introduces non rational thinking into the uquation.

cheers

Nick

[Fisherman]

Hello, Nick,
Somehow, I suspect that if JtR had wanted to be caught, he would have been. There were too many good chances. He could have lingered a split-second longer, perhaps, and been caught.

However, I do suspect that the possibility of being caught heightened the thrill for him, and the opportunity to demonstrate his superiority perhaps was part of the pleasure he took from his exploits.

curious

Think of Heirens, Curious!

The best,
Fisherman