The victim that survived a JtR attack

[erobitha]

It's pure speculation of course, but I have always thought that JTR must have made some aborted attempts, perhaps picking up prostitutes, then failing to ....... errrmm.......see the transaction through to it's natural conclusion.

[Ms Diddles]

[Losmandris]

I totally agree. It is highly likely that he made several abortive attempts. These in all probability went unreported or were dismissed as wild claims, of the 'I was attacked by the ripper' variety. Chances are one or more of these claims/old wives tales is going to be true. I think finding any hard/substantive evidence would be nigh-on-impossible. Probably have to rely on anecdotal evidence/hey say at best.

[Ms Diddles]

I totally agree. It is highly likely that he made several abortive attempts. These in all probability went unreported or were dismissed as wild claims, of the 'I was attacked by the ripper' variety. Chances are one or more of these claims/old wives tales is going to be true. I think finding any hard/substantive evidence would be nigh-on-impossible. Probably have to rely on anecdotal evidence/hey say at best.

Absolutely, Los!

The aborted attempts may have involved no violence or threat of violence whatsoever.

It could have been something as simple as engaging a prostitutes services, then backing out promptly if the circumstances didn't feel right for whatever reason.

Like you say, it's impossible to verify as it would have gone unreported and likely unremarked.

it would probably appear completely inconsequential to the intended victim.

If I could, I'd build a time machine and go back, plant myself among the unfortunates and ask these kind of questions.

Really getting into the "nitty gritty" of their transactions so to speak.

Perhaps they would talk more freely to a fellow female rather than a dude cop!

Anyway, sadly I don't have a time machine so I'm left speculating.....!

[etenguy]

I totally agree. It is highly likely that he made several abortive attempts. These in all probability went unreported or were dismissed as wild claims, of the 'I was attacked by the ripper' variety. Chances are one or more of these claims/old wives tales is going to be true. I think finding any hard/substantive evidence would be nigh-on-impossible. Probably have to rely on anecdotal evidence/hey say at best.

Hi Los

I thought that might be a possibility too - and we do know that is what Annie Farmer did. But as the thread has progressed the difficulties associated with establishing decent evidence has become more apparent. That is assuming such an attack could be identified in the first place. Others have posted candidates for survivors, but we cannot be sure about them and they have been considered over some time.

[FrankO]

I wondered whether there was a victim who survived JtR and whether anyone has searched for her to learn her story and what it has to tell us.

Hi Eten,

I've always wondered if the woman in the article below from the Lloyd's Weekly News of 30 September was such a victim...

"Last night a correspondent furnished us with another strange story of an incident occurring early on Thursday morning, near to the scene of the four murders. He states that early in the morning a woman was sitting sleeping on some steps in one of the houses in Dorset-street, when she was awoke by a man who asked her whether she had any bed to go to, or any money to pay for a lodging. She replied that she had not, upon which he said he had money, and then gave her what she thought was two half-sovereigns. She went with him down a passage, and when there he seized her by the throat and tried to strangle her. A scuffle ensued between them, in which she screamed and got away. The next morning she found that what he gave her was two farthings machined round the edge like gold coins. She described him as being a man with a dark moustache, and dressed in a rough frieze blue overcoat."

Not that it helps us a lot in the sense of a useful physical descriprion of the attacker, but it's interesting that the attack took place only 3 days before "the double event" and might fit with how the Ripper went to work.

Cheers,
Frank

[Damaso Marte]

Hi Eten,

I've always wondered if the woman in the article below from the Lloyd's Weekly News of 30 September was such a victim...

"Last night a correspondent furnished us with another strange story of an incident occurring early on Thursday morning, near to the scene of the four murders. He states that early in the morning a woman was sitting sleeping on some steps in one of the houses in Dorset-street, when she was awoke by a man who asked her whether she had any bed to go to, or any money to pay for a lodging. She replied that she had not, upon which he said he had money, and then gave her what she thought was two half-sovereigns. She went with him down a passage, and when there he seized her by the throat and tried to strangle her. A scuffle ensued between them, in which she screamed and got away. The next morning she found that what he gave her was two farthings machined round the edge like gold coins. She described him as being a man with a dark moustache, and dressed in a rough frieze blue overcoat."

Not that it helps us a lot in the sense of a useful physical descriprion of the attacker, but it's interesting that the attack took place only 3 days before "the double event" and might fit with how the Ripper went to work.

Cheers,
Frank

That's interesting - and a possible explanation for how some women who are not proven to have been engaging in prostitution might have ended up as Ripper victims.

[erobitha]

That's interesting - and a possible explanation for how some women who are not proven to have been engaging in prostitution might have ended up as Ripper victims.

Why exactly do you think she went with him down a passageway for?

[FrankO]

Why exactly do you think she went with him down a passageway for?

It is interesting to see how desperate women actually were and what little enticement Jack the Ripper may have needed to get them to go with him.

[Joshua Rogan]

It is interesting to see how desperate women actually were and what little enticement Jack the Ripper may have needed to get them to go with him.

Even though it turned out to be fake, two sovereigns is actually a pretty big enticement.

[FrankO]

Even though it turned out to be fake, two sovereigns is actually a pretty big enticement.

You're right about that, Joshua - I should have added that he didn't need to have been a smooth talker, as some believe he was or must have been. If the attacker in this case actually was Jack the Ripper, that is.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Eten,

I've always wondered if the woman in the article below from the Lloyd's Weekly News of 30 September was such a victim...

"Last night a correspondent furnished us with another strange story of an incident occurring early on Thursday morning, near to the scene of the four murders. He states that early in the morning a woman was sitting sleeping on some steps in one of the houses in Dorset-street, when she was awoke by a man who asked her whether she had any bed to go to, or any money to pay for a lodging. She replied that she had not, upon which he said he had money, and then gave her what she thought was two half-sovereigns. She went with him down a passage, and when there he seized her by the throat and tried to strangle her. A scuffle ensued between them, in which she screamed and got away. The next morning she found that what he gave her was two farthings machined round the edge like gold coins. She described him as being a man with a dark moustache, and dressed in a rough frieze blue overcoat."

Not that it helps us a lot in the sense of a useful physical descriprion of the attacker, but it's interesting that the attack took place only 3 days before "the double event" and might fit with how the Ripper went to work.

Cheers,
Frank

Hi Frank,

I agree that there is no reason to doubt the possibility that the ripper had unsuccessful of aborted attempts either before or during the series. You’re quote seems to me to be a perfect example of this possibility. Despite any experience or efficiency that the killer might have gained I’m guessing that he’d have been in a state of excitement/nervous tension? This might lead to making a grab for the woman a split second too soon or perhaps while she was moving? One tiny error and the victim might have a chance to scream out or perhaps wriggle free? Then there would have been the consideration that some women are much stronger than others or are more handy in a fight.

Although we don’t know the woman’s background we know that she was penniless and homeless and desperate enough to go down a passageway with a complete stranger for money so she may or may not have resorted to prostitution previously. I’d say that this this could very well have been a failed attempt by the ripper and there may have been more.

[Joshua Rogan]

You're right about that, Joshua - I should have added that he didn't need to have been a smooth talker, as some believe he was or must have been. If the attacker in this case actually was Jack the Ripper, that is.

Oh yes, I dont disagree, Frank. I just can't decide whether or not it's a smart move by the man. If I've calculated correctly, two sovereigns is enough to pay your doss money for about 8 months, so is probably more than enough to persuade any rough sleeper to accompany you, where a more modest sum would not. Yet it's also more than enough to set off major alarm bells, and make the victim even more cautious than they ordinarily would be.
Perhaps, after all, it was a cunning move to dangle a carrot so big thay only the truly desperate would follow it?

[FrankO]

Oh yes, I dont disagree, Frank. I just can't decide whether or not it's a smart move by the man. If I've calculated correctly, two sovereigns is enough to pay your doss money for about 8 months, so is probably more than enough to persuade any rough sleeper to accompany you, where a more modest sum would not. Yet it's also more than enough to set off major alarm bells, and make the victim even more cautious than they ordinarily would be.
Perhaps, after all, it was a cunning move to dangle a carrot so big thay only the truly desperate would follow it?

I see what you mean now, Joshua. I wasn't aware how much he dangled before her eyes (from her point of view, anyway), so this move might, indeed, have made his intended victim more cautious or even have set off alarm bells. Fortunately, the woman was able to scream her way out of this attacker's clutches.

[Joshua Rogan]

I see what you mean now, Joshua. I wasn't aware how much he dangled before her eyes (from her point of view, anyway), so this move might, indeed, have made his intended victim more cautious or even have set off alarm bells. Fortunately, the woman was able to scream her way out of this attacker's clutches.

Mmm. Obviously his cunning plan backfired on this occasion.

Oh, and I calculated incorrectly, it's a mere 4 month's bed money. Still, that's sleeping arrangements sorted until Xmas, which is nothing to be sniffed at.