Patterns formed by murder locations

[lynn cates]

Saturday morning cartoon

Hello Rivkah. Thanks.

"It's a grown-up Saturday morning cartoon, with a braniac, a cyborg, a super-guy, wonder woman, computer genius/talking computer."

Are you referring to modern "Jack the Ripper" investigation here? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[curious4]

You realize I was totally kidding, right?
I don't reject the Swedish research. I reject your application of it to the Ripper letters.The dyslexic students I worked with, and observed were not in self-contained classrooms with lower-functioning students.

The way special ed. works in the US is that slightly below average to bright students with specific disabilities that cause them to need extra tutoring, or extra time can spend time in a resource room. In high school "Resource" is a class they're assigned to, and it's a little like study hall (a class period for prepping or working on the next day's homework), except students get a grade for resource, and don't get a grade for study hall.

We have honors students in resource rooms. Some of them have minor hearing impairments, some of them have motor skills problems, some are dyslexic, some have Asperger's syndrome, some have ADD, some have chronic illnesses, and more than normal absences. Dyslexic students often take prepared portions of exams in resource, or they may have special exam prep. I remember one student who used to be able to study a list of vocabulary words that would be on an exam before he took it, but it was prepared in such a way that it didn't give away what the actual questions would be. A student with cerebral palsy might get a test given orally, if it's a Scan-tron multiple choice (fill in the circles) test, or he might be allow to type out answers on a keyboard.

On a regular day, dyslexic students would get help, depending on the degree of help they needed, in various forms, such as having a teacher go over a reading assignment with them, or receive prepared notes from their classes for the day (some kids with severe dyslexia qualified for a notetaker, and they'd be assigned to the same section of a class, when one than one was taking that class, so an aide could take notes, type them up, and photocopy them). Hearing impaired students would get notetakers as well.

In the earlier grades, a resource room was where a child with dyslexia would go just for his reading instruction, which was usually 1-1 or 1-2 teacher-student, and return to the regular classroom for the rest of the day. Depending on his individual plan, he might return to the resource teacher for extra tutoring after school, or during a reading-based class period like "social studies," but was otherwise just a regular student.

That's what I'm talking about, when I'm talking about dyslexic students in special ed. Now, there are also private schools just for students with dyslexia, but parents pay out of pocket for those, unless they can get their health insurance to pay for them.

We don't put bright students with specific learning disabilities, or physical disabilities in the self-contained classrooms with severely retarded kids. And we don't put those kids in with kids with behavior disturbances. (And no, "behavior disturbances" is not a euphemism for autism. In my experience, autistic kids who have never been institutionalized don't exhibit violent or disturbed behavior, unless they also have some other problem as well, like ODD, or ADHD, or have been in a lot of foster homes, or abused, although, then they do show them in spades, because they can't talk about what has happened to them, or the frustrations they're experiencing.)

Dear Rifkah,

The most advanced techniques for helping dyslectics are useless if the condition is undiagnosed, therefore a list of specific pointers to dyslexia is essential. Among these are a tendency to "lose" the last letter of a word, as in "knif", and to misspell simple words, such as "wate", while remembering the k in knife and the w in whores, not something a ordinary poor speller would do. I have given full details of what I find points to dyslexia in the Dear Boss letter, the postcard, the From Hell letter and the "threatening letter" as opposed to the Openshaw letter in my previous post on this.

For the record, once again, I have never claimed to diagnose the writer of any of these letters as dyslectic, merely that there are pointers to this and that in my opinion the writer could well be dyslectic, thus giving an indication,. perhaps, of his state of mind, that is a strong need to prove himself cleverer than those around him. (see my original post on this).

Might I suggest that your rather "bullish" attitude could be a disadvantage on these message boards.The majority of posters are happy (on the whole) to accept that we all have our own ideas and agree to differ. It is allowed, you know. Posters put forward their ideas, with what supporting evidence they can muster and the ideas are discussed, at length or not. With the scarcity of hard evidence in this case, we are thrown back on our own various theories, and it would be exceedingly dull if everyone agreed with everyone else.

I do find the "treatments" you have put forward a little old-fashioned. To oversimplify, I prefer the older term for this condition," word-blindness" more appropriate - you wouldn't expect a blind person to read,from an ordinary book however many extra hours of support they are gven, and I believe that giving children (and adults) a way of living with their problem is a better way of dealing with it. Dyslectics here, if they so desire, may take their exams orally, for example.

We could argue this point until the proverbial cows come home and never agree, but I stand by my theory, as do you, no doubt, so perhaps we can agree to differ, without the necessity for one of us to have the last word. My post has nothing to do with the treatment of dyslexia, by the way.

Kind regards,
C4

[Fisherman]

Lynn:

"No, that he moved outside the kill zone--whatever that was."

I can´t agree on that score. I don´t think the Ripper murders were to any extent murders committed out of the killer´s comfort zone. Which was why I entered the discussion on this thread in the first place.

But you had already figured that out, had you not?

The best,
Fisherman

[RivkahChaya]

Hello Rivkah. Thanks. I saw a few minutes once. Some lass was applying nail varnish. She got a telephone call, pushed some buttons on a computer and it was case closed.

What rot!

Cheers.
LC

Are you sure that wasn't Criminal Minds? For all Raven might like it, and it works well as a horror series (personally I love it, I really do, but sometimes for the wrong reasons), I don't think much of it as a police procedural. It's a grown-up Saturday morning cartoon, with a braniac, a cyborg, a super-guy, wonder woman, computer genius/talking computer. It could be Clue Club, or Superfriends, grown up, and getting jobs with paychecks, but sticking together.

Try Criminal Minds. At least they actually studied profiling techniques before writing the show, and had a former FBI Profiler as a consultant. Also they reference known serial killers all the time.

It's so overdone and melodramatic. Every show has a required line condemning the media for giving serial killers nicknames, because they're not heros. One character even said something like "We don't do this for entertainment." I know it was supposed to be funny, but it struck me as a sad irony.

Also, here is the FBI website's faq page on the job "Special Agent." Scroll down to #17, where it explains that there is no such job as "profiler." Also, the Behavior Analysis Unit isn't like it is on TV at all (it mostly does counter-terrorism, ever since someone pointed out that we should have noticed it was odd that all those Arab non-citizens taking flying lessons didn't want to learn how to land the plane), although the FBI has been happy to encourage the show, because for once in US history, since the 1950s, people are liking the FBI. Historically, the agency has been hugely unpopular, and when agents weren't evil, they were buffoons. The first positive depiction I can think of was in Twin Peaks, and Agent Cooper was still a little weird. Mulder and Scully were heros, but because they were fighting for truth within a corrupt agency. This is the first squeaky clean FBI either ever, or in a really, really long time.

[lynn cates]

Charles

Hello Christer. Thanks.

"Nope - I ´d love to say that you´re closing in, but I´m afraid I can´t."

Well, well. I've just about exhausted a short list of suspects. One of the very weakest was Hutch. He might be regarded as a suspect--given the confusion over his name (Topping), his odd behaviour and his proximity to the scene of one crime.

Should I also be looking for a similar weak suspect? (heh-heh)

"That he spread his killings in order to stay undetected...?"

No, that he moved outside the kill zone--whatever that was.

"Agreed - he would have been called Charles."

Indeed? I think Tom Wescott would agree with you on that. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Lynn:

"Oh, alright. Mann? Hhmphf. Hutchinson? Suspicious behaviour and a name change? Not good enough."

Nope - I ´d love to say that you´re closing in, but I´m afraid I can´t.

"Although you see any number of posters who believe precisely this of "Jack.""

That he spread his killings in order to stay undetected...?

"Jack? Bah, humbug!"

Agreed - he would have been called Charles.

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

Early Christmas

Hello Christer. Thanks.

"Not even close, Lynn. You can do better than that, I´m sure."

Oh, alright. Mann? Hhmphf. Hutchinson? Suspicious behaviour and a name change? Not good enough.

"There is a distinction, yes - at least I think so. But to my mind, it works the other way around; it is more likely today that a serial killer will obscure his tracks, than it was back in the 19:th century. And that owes a lot to media, I believe; if you go on printing that killing within a comfort zone will enable the police to tighten the net, then some will see the usefulness in taking their business away from their home shores.

But that did not apply in 1888."

Although you see any number of posters who believe precisely this of "Jack."

Jack? Bah, humbug!

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Lynn:

"Very well. Klosowski? A mere lad. Kelly? Maybe in London; maybe not. Bury? Oh, please."

Not even close, Lynn. You can do better than that, I´m sure.

"Well, I have to hand it to you. You know a good bit about 20th & 21st c serial killers. I don’t and could not care any less. You see, I have a 19th c mind and I must think a certain way. Now, in which century did this “ripper” chap live?"

There is a distinction, yes - at least I think so. But to my mind, it works the other way around; it is more likely today that a serial killer will obscure his tracks, than it was back in the 19:th century. And that owes a lot to media, I believe; if you go on printing that killing within a comfort zone will enable the police to tighten the net, then some will see the usefulness in taking their business away from their home shores.

But that did not apply in 1888.

All the best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

closer look

Hello Raven. Thanks. I appreciate how you pass from serial killers "back" to "JTR." Well done!

"The murder in Mitre Square stands out as being outside the comfort zone, if we hold to a single killer. If multiple murderers were involved who can say? Some might have simply killed the one person they wanted dead, used the other murders for a pattern, and copycatted."

Can't disagree here. At least, it merits a closer look.

Cheers.
LC

[RavenDarkendale]

Try Criminal Minds. At least they actually studied profiling techniques before writing the show, and had a former FBI Profiler as a consultant. Also they reference known serial killers all the time.

But back to JtR and his Kill Zone. The murder in Mitre Square stands out as being outside the comfort zone, if we hold to a single killer. If multiple murderers were involved who can say? Some might have simply killed the one person they wanted dead, used the other murders for a pattern, and copycatted. Without first taking the stance that one "lone knifeman" was responsible for all the crimes, no pattern of comfort zone applies.

But if we knew all the answers there would be nothing to discuss!

[lynn cates]

rot

Hello Rivkah. Thanks. I saw a few minutes once. Some lass was applying nail varnish. She got a telephone call, pushed some buttons on a computer and it was case closed.

What rot!

Cheers.
LC

[RivkahChaya]

Might be mine--if I watched CSI. I don't.

Cheers.
LC

You should. It's hilarious. The genius scientists can't even do CPR properly. Once, a person being questioned (because CSIs question suspects) started having a seizure, and fell off his chair, and without checking his pulse or respiration, or noting that he had vomited, the CSI began CPR. Then another CSI jumped in and felt the guy's wrist and said "He has a pulse."

My husband said "Yeah, and it's exactly in rhythm with your chest thrusts. What an amazing coincidence."

[lynn cates]

19th c mind

Hello Christer. Thanks.

“Nnnn.....ope! Come again.”

Very well. Klosowski? A mere lad. Kelly? Maybe in London; maybe not. Bury? Oh, please.

“I think you get my drift, Lynn. In fact, I´m sure you do.”

As you have said, however, there could be an innocuous interpretation here.

“You don´t THINK you do, Lynn. “

Indeed. I may know serial killers who never kill. Those are the best kind, I should think.

“I´m sure that´s true, Lynn. Just as I am sure that a majority of them have - historically - looked for prey along routes that can be logically tied to them. Some have done so in their neighbourhood, like Nielsen and Shawcross, others have used other comfort zones than close to home areas, like Carpenter, Hansen, Bittaker and Norris, where they have felt familiar. Some have travelled long stretches to kill, avoiding to leave the authorities the opportunity to work with an easily recognizable base area.
But the Ripper, no matter who he was, killed in such a small zone that the suggestion that he regarded it a comfort zone becomes very hard to look away from.”

Well, I have to hand it to you. You know a good bit about 20th & 21st c serial killers. I don’t and could not care any less. You see, I have a 19th c mind and I must think a certain way. Now, in which century did this “ripper” chap live? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Lynn:

"Druitt? Six miles out. Kosminski? Can't say. Tumblety? At his snake oil shop."

Nnnn.....ope! Come again.

"Implicate, unwittingly??"

Yes. Implicate, unwittingly. What he claimed meant - if correct - that Lechmere could not have been telling the truth. And if you claim something that means that another person must have been lying, then you implicate him as a liar. If it happens in advance (as in this case) or afterwards is of little interest.
It is the same, more or less, as splitting up a pair of villains to interrogate them one by one. No matter in which order this happens, both can say something that will make the other one look like a liar.
I think you get my drift, Lynn. In fact, I´m sure you do.

"Don't know any serial killers."

You don´t THINK you do, Lynn.

"But perhaps they kill along a beaten track--except for those who don't? "

I´m sure that´s true, Lynn. Just as I am sure that a majority of them have - historically - looked for prey along routes that can be logically tied to them. Some have done so in their neighbourhood, like Nielsen and Shawcross, others have used other comfort zones than close to home areas, like Carpenter, Hansen, Bittaker and Norris, where they have felt familiar. Some have travelled long stretches to kill, avoiding to leave the authorities the opportunity to work with an easily recognizable base area.
But the Ripper, no matter who he was, killed in such a small zone that the suggestion that he regarded it a comfort zone becomes very hard to look away from.

Cheers, Lynn.
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

authorities

Hello Christer. Thanks.

"Quite a few, actually - but none of them were around in 1888. But only the fewest of those who WERE would have had reason to travel along the routes were the Whitechapel killer(s) - just for you, Lynn - struck, and at the approximate times he (ooops!) did so."

Thanks for pluralising!

"Nope - guess again!"

Druitt? Six miles out. Kosminski? Can't say. Tumblety? At his snake oil shop.

"Mizen did. In advance, even, and unwittingly. But the only way we can believe Mizen, is by misbelieving Lechmere."

Implicate, unwittingly??

"Good! Then you can spare the time to study Canter, Rossmo and some other authorities, who have noticed that serial killers often have a propensity to kill along their own beaten tracks. CSI is fiction, serial killers are a reality."

Don't know any serial killers. Hope I NEVER do. But perhaps they kill along a beaten track--except for those who don't? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC