Coincidence?

[Sam Flynn]

Another 2 coincidences....1: Mary Kelly 1871 living in Cleveland street born Glamorgan

And 2 : Thomas Kelly living at 13 Millers Court in 1891 born 1856 Spitalfields Dockside Labourer.

Just shows how common the name Kelly was.

[packers stem]

I checked and sourced them.

Eddowes was born in 1842. Keely was born around 1863.

The 1891 Census of England and Wales shows there were over 900 women living in London named Mary Kelly and who who were born between 1840 and 1870. If the Ripper was targeting Mary Kelly, but had no idea what she looked like, he could have killed hundreds of Mary Kallys and not gotten the right one.

who is Keely?
Twice you've mentioned the name now .

So ,i've produced evidence that there were around 125 Mary Kelly's in the entirety of London , in the 1891 census born between 1850 and 1870..... which anybody is free to check.
You are suggesting in the previous 10 years around 800 were born !
Maybe you should reproduce the evidence

[Wickerman]

Why are you and everyone forgetting that a witness says Kate claimed to know a killer? That's enough to get her killed by that same killer. Simple math...that seems elusive to some people for some reason.

Because it is hearsay?

[Michael W Richards]

Catherine Eddowes was a poverty-stricken, semi-homeless prostitute, not a character in s spy thriller. If she wanted to pass a message on to John Kelly, she would have turned to him and said "John, if something happens to me, I want you to go see Mary Jane Kelly at 13 Millers Court."

Why are you and everyone forgetting that a witness says Kate claimed to know a killer? That's enough to get her killed by that same killer. Simple math...that seems elusive to some people for some reason.

[Michael W Richards]

My perspective is that a semi-homeless alcoholic prostitute attempting to blackmail a man who was messily butchering semi-homeless alcoholic prostitutes would never agree to meet this homicidal maniac alone at 1;30 in the morning. If Eddowes had arranged a meeting with the Ripper, she would have brought John Kelly.

My perspective is that a woman who thinks she is about to gain a large wad of cash would not spend hours pawning a pair of boots and trying to bum money off of her daughter. She would arrange to meet her blackmail victim in the middle of the day, in a place where there were witnesses, she would bring along the man she is living with, and he would be armed.

My perspective is that Catherine Eddowes was not a suicidal idiot.

Thanks for sharing, if you were Catherine Eddowes at that point in time and at that place, your insights would be invaluable. As it is your just putting your own sensibilities on a situation that is unclear and on a woman who you really know nothing about. My comments stem from basic human nature.. so they area applicable no matter who the specific individual was.

[Fiver]

JTR: Hello, down-and-out forty-something woman.
Woman #1: Hello, mister.
JTR: What's your name and address?
Woman #1: Elizabeth Jones of 5 Great Pearl Street.
JTR: I'll bid you a good evening, then. Mind how you go.

Some hours and several tries later...

JTR: Hello, down-and-out forty-something woman.
Woman #8: Hello, mister.
JTR: What's your name and address?
Woman #8: Mary O'Kelly of 22 Devonshire Street.
JTR: Die, strumpet!!!

Down-and-out forty-something woman: Hello, I know you are the Ripper. Give me money.
JTR: I don't have any money right now, but if we could meet at 1:30 in the morning I will have something for you. Make sure you come alone.
Down-and-out forty-something woman: You seem a trustworthy sort. What could possible go wrong?

[Paddy]

Another 2 coincidences....1: Mary Kelly 1871 living in Cleveland street born Glamorgan

And 2 : Thomas Kelly living at 13 Millers Court in 1891 born 1856 Spitalfields Dockside Labourer.

[Fiver]

The Mary Kelly aliases bit to me seems like a message for someone. Maybe John Kelly. "If something happens to me go see Mary Kelly on Dorset st." Its at least possible at this point.

Catherine Eddowes was a poverty-stricken, semi-homeless prostitute, not a character in s spy thriller. If she wanted to pass a message on to John Kelly, she would have turned to him and said "John, if something happens to me, I want you to go see Mary Jane Kelly at 13 Millers Court."

[Fiver]

Your own perspective is obviously what you wish to see, so why argue with you? Why take 100L when 500, 1000, 5000L might be available, now that's a poor persons perspective.

My perspective is that a semi-homeless alcoholic prostitute attempting to blackmail a man who was messily butchering semi-homeless alcoholic prostitutes would never agree to meet this homicidal maniac alone at 1;30 in the morning. If Eddowes had arranged a meeting with the Ripper, she would have brought John Kelly.

My perspective is that a woman who thinks she is about to gain a large wad of cash would not spend hours pawning a pair of boots and trying to bum money off of her daughter. She would arrange to meet her blackmail victim in the middle of the day, in a place where there were witnesses, she would bring along the man she is living with, and he would be armed.

My perspective is that Catherine Eddowes was not a suicidal idiot.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

The Eddowes blackmail/extortion theory relies on the killer being from the better classes. It makes no sense if he's a poor unknown. The reward would be far more than the killer had. Not knocking any particular theory, but I feel that this extortion scenario is preferred by those who favour a wealthy killer, hence it's popularity with Royal Conspiracy theorists. If we assume that Kate did genuinely know who Jack was, if he was just another working class Whitechapel inhabitant then this scheme to blackmail doesn't stand up.
Likewise, just because someone says they saw Lord Lucan riding Shergar doesn't mean they actually know the whereabouts of either.

[Michael W Richards]

If the newspaper report is correct and Eddowes thought she knew who the Ripper was, which makes more sense?

1) Report the killer to the authorities and try to collect the reward.

2) Go by yourself at 1:30AM to meet a homicidal maniac and try to blackmail him.

Anyone with functioning brain cells would pick #1, The newspaper account said Eddowes had planned to do #1.

Going by yourself at 1:30AM to meet a homicidal maniac and try to blackmail him would be an act of mind-numbing stupidity.

Your own perspective is obviously what you wish to see, so why argue with you? Why take 100L when 500, 1000, 5000L might be available, now that's a poor persons perspective.

[Fiver]

Kate claimed she knew who was responsible for the killings, that's who I believe she sought to extort funds from, and I doubt very much this had anything to do with the police.

If the newspaper report is correct and Eddowes thought she knew who the Ripper was, which makes more sense?

1) Report the killer to the authorities and try to collect the reward.

2) Go by yourself at 1:30AM to meet a homicidal maniac and try to blackmail him.

Anyone with functioning brain cells would pick #1, The newspaper account said Eddowes had planned to do #1.

Going by yourself at 1:30AM to meet a homicidal maniac and try to blackmail him would be an act of mind-numbing stupidity.

[Fiver]

I do wish people would check their facts correctly

I checked and sourced them.

Eddowes was born in 1842. Keely was born around 1863.

The 1891 Census of England and Wales shows there were over 900 women living in London named Mary Kelly and who who were born between 1840 and 1870. If the Ripper was targeting Mary Kelly, but had no idea what she looked like, he could have killed hundreds of Mary Kallys and not gotten the right one.

[Michael W Richards]

A couple of questions if I may. Who do you think the killer was in this case? A Policeman, someone who worked in the Pawn shop or a criminal from the underworld? Also who were these higher bidders? What is the evidence of their existence?

Tristan

Kate claimed she knew who was responsible for the killings, that's who I believe she sought to extort funds from, and I doubt very much this had anything to do with the police. I do think the police had wind of something going to happen there, or near there though....3 detectives nearby, 1 PC in the square itself and 1 retired officer, 2 foot patrols coming from each direction. And someone who may have appeared to be Kate upon reflection and a man with a jaunty scarf.

The Mary Kelly aliases bit to me seems like a message for someone. Maybe John Kelly. "If something happens to me go see Mary Kelly on Dorset st." Its at least possible at this point.

[Herlock Sholmes]

JTR: Hello, down-and-out forty-something woman.
Woman #1: Hello, mister.
JTR: What's your name and address?
Woman #1: Elizabeth Jones of 5 Great Pearl Street.
JTR: I'll bid you a good evening, then. Mind how you go.

Some hours and several tries later...

JTR: Hello, down-and-out forty-something woman.
Woman #8: Hello, mister.
JTR: What's your name and address?
Woman #8: Mary O'Kelly of 22 Devonshire Street.
JTR: Die, strumpet!!!