Coincidence?

[Losmandris]

I understand why Kate gave the police a false name, but why give a false name to a pawnbroker? I suspect the false address was merely that she had no established address. Did she know Mary Jane Kelly, at least in passing, and was attempting to give her name and address simply our of embarrassment at not have a fixed abode?

The question is did she ever intend to get the boots back?

Tristan

[DJA]

While we are on pawn tickets,Fashion Street with The Queens Head on the corner of Commercial Street ..... where Stride drank with Tanner and Hutchinson's police statement was altered so that he saw Mary Kelly with "A man" outside ...... etc ...... guess where 52 Whites Row was?

Across the road and six doors from the Jewish soup kitchen.

Another coincidence.

[DJA]

"Fashion Street" is not "the rear of the building that included 32 Flower and Dean Street".

If you consult a Goads Map,there is no fence between the building and 6 Fashion Street's Jews Soup Kitchen.

One could walk right in,sit right down.

[Sam Flynn]

Did she know Mary Jane Kelly, at least in passing, and was attempting to give her name and address simply our of embarrassment at not have a fixed abode?

If she was embarrassed about being homeless, which is a good suggestion and quite possible, she could have made up any name at random... as I believe she did. It's not as if pawnbrokers would, or even could, run an identity check on their customers' contact details. As long as Eddowes produced that ticket to reclaim the boots, it didn't matter whose name or address was on it, or whether the details were fake.

[Joshua Rogan]

While we are on pawn tickets,Fashion Street with The Queens Head on the corner of Commercial Street ..... where Stride drank with Tanner and Hutchinson's police statement was altered so that he saw Mary Kelly with "A man" outside ...... etc ...... guess where 52 Whites Row was?

Across the road and six doors from the Jewish soup kitchen.

Another coincidence.

Can you point out where no.52 is, I'm having trouble finding anywhere above 36 in White's Row.

[DJA]

Can you point out where no.52 is, I'm having trouble finding anywhere above 36 in White's Row.

It's the last house.
Diagonally opposite The Queen's Head.

0ccupied by Sarah Freedman,her three children and a boarder in the 1891 census.

[Michael W Richards]

The question is did she ever intend to get the boots back?

Tristan

She said she was going to turn in the killer for a reward, and I suspect on the night of her death she was trying to blackmail that same person, so she might have believed she had money coming in soon. They were Johns only boots after all.

[Sam Flynn]

Can you point out where no.52 is, I'm having trouble finding anywhere above 36 in White's Row.

Perhaps "52 White's Row" was a fake address conjured up by Emily Birrell!

[Michael W Richards]

If she was embarrassed about being homeless, which is a good suggestion and quite possible, she could have made up any name at random... as I believe she did. It's not as if pawnbrokers would, or even could, run an identity check on their customers' contact details. As long as Eddowes produced that ticket to reclaim the boots, it didn't matter whose name or address was on it, or whether the details were fake.

If Annie had pawned items under the Name Elizabeth Stride nee Gustavsdotter, _2 Flower and Dean St, within 24 hours of her murder, would that be as coincidental? Or is that since you can find a lot of Kellys on the 1888 census around it therefore becomes an understandable and obvious alias? The surname isn't the point here, despite the attempts to deflect the argument with that small facet, its the complete given names and surname combined with 99% of a complete address of the very next "ripper" victim in sequence.

[Sam Flynn]

If Annie had pawned items under the Name Elizabeth Stride nee Gustavsdotter, _2 Flower and Dean St, within 24 hours of her murder, would that be as coincidental?

How many Gustafsdotters in Spitalfields? How many Strides, for that matter? How many people had a long-term partner called Gustafsdotter/Gustafson or Stride? How likely was it that someone would randomly choose a pseudonym as uncommon as Gustafsdotter or Stride? How many people would even have heard of someone with those names?

Now, how many Kellys were there in that heavily-settled-by-Irish district? The rest follows...

[Joshua Rogan]

I understand why Kate gave the police a false name, but why give a false name to a pawnbroker? I suspect the false address was merely that she had no established address. Did she know Mary Jane Kelly, at least in passing, and was attempting to give her name and address simply our of embarrassment at not have a fixed abode?

Kate and John had lived at the same lodging house for seven years, so had a very well established address - 55 Flower and Dean Street.

[DJA]

.... and a landlord who would have put them up on credit.

John was unlikely to wander without footwear.

Kate could go and do as she pleased.

[Joshua Rogan]

It's the last house.
Diagonally opposite The Queen's Head.

That looks like it's no.13 to me.
If you put 52 into Google maps it does point there, but so do lots of numbers.

0ccupied by Sarah Freedman,her three children and a boarder in the 1891 census.

Sarah seems to have lived at no.4, I don't think the 52 refers to the address.
The census only goes up to no.36

[Joshua Rogan]

Perhaps "52 White's Row" was a fake address conjured up by Emily Birrell!

I wouldn't be surprised. Even the name Emily Birrell might have been conjured up too!

[DJA]

That looks like it's no.13 to me.
If you put 52 into Google maps it does point there, but so do lots of numbers.



Sarah seems to have lived at no.4, I don't think the 52 refers to the address.
The census only goes up to no.36

52 did exist,it was listed as providing money orders.

Not subscribed ,so below is my source


Full Transcription of White's Row from the 1891 London Census