How realistic was it for JTR to disguise himself as a PC?

[Leanne]

All of this started with the question as to whether or not there was another door (for Elizabeth Prater to use), an open window or both to the storage shed that room 13 was originally part of. I'm hoping that I've found the only footage of that passage (NOT THE ENTIRE MILLERS COURT OR ROOM 13), before it was destroyed to finish that carpark.

I found a writing by Richard Jones (who used to host these Ripper tours), posted in March 2016. He said he used to take people along the line of the former Dorset Street, (at the time Duval Street) and stop at the gap in the kerb that marked the site of the entrance to Miller's Court. The host in the video might be Richard Jones.

If everything was completely destroyed for the Mary Kelly part of the tour, how did anyone know where the entrance once was?

[Leanne]

RELAX SAM,

All I am trying to is examine this video recording and open the possibility that it was filmed in the final remains of the entrance passage to Millers Court, before the carpark was completed:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Ripper+Victim+Mary+Kelly&&view=detail&mid=27F4C151249FF91D16C527F4C151249FF91D16C5&&FORM=VRDGAR

[Leanne]

Except for my assigned parking space, which is directly over the location of MJK's bed.

Leanne, how good to see you return! I enjoyed your book on Barnett very much.

It would have been nice to see a bit more discussion and background on Joseph Fleming, though.

THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENT ON MY BOOK!
At the time I left these message boards, I was so full of studying the JTR case that I needed a break.
During my absence my Mother passed away and I was left with looking after Dad. We moved house from a busy Sydney suburb to a quiet semi-rural town just outside.

There's not much here and I hardly ever leave the house because of Dad. Being bored I just came back here out of curiosity.

That book was quite an achievement for a single "disabled" woman with nothing else to do.

[Sam Flynn]

Sam,

The first photo does not prove that the passage in question was flattened to ground

The building was old and dilapidated - just look at the poor state of the brickwork; they were hardly likely to leave that crumbling masonry there and build around it, and they didn't. It is a historical fact that the northern side of Duval Street (as Dorset Street was renamed in the early 1900s), including the entirety of Miller's Court, ceased to exist in the 1920s.

From the Wikipedia article linked to above:

"Dorset Street was renamed Duval Street on 28 June 1904. In 1920 the Corporation of London purchased Spitalfields Market, and demolished the whole of the north side of Duval Street, including Miller's Court".

From the Whitechapel Society website:

"The northern side of the street was demolished in 1928 to make room for enlargements to Spitalfields Market, with the southern side being cleared in the 1960’s leaving what was once Dorset/Duval Street as merely an unnamed service road beside a multi-storey car park."

From the London Pubology website, referring to the "Blue Coat Boy" which once stood five doors away from Miller's Court:



I could go on and list any number of sources, but I hope the point has been made.

[Leanne]

Sam,

The first photo does not prove that the passage in question was flattened to ground, even if it does show that Millers Court was destroyed! (look at the bottom left corner), We are looking from above at the second floor.

The second photo showing the closeup of Mary Kelly's room and the glimpse of the archway, does not prove that the passage leading to that archway was flattened.

I read that that it was left intact for a while.


I've moved house while I was absent from these boards, had a lot of books with dogears and pages missing and only brought some. I'll try to find the book that info is from.

Leanne Perry

[Sam Flynn]

Where exactly in that photo is Millers Court?

If you look at post #3 on that thread, Simon Wood posted a close-up centred on Mary Kelly's room itself. You can just make out the top of Kelly's door and the curved archway of the entrance passage to Miller's Court to the right of it. You'll also note that the block of rooms on the western side of Miller's Court has been completely flattened, as would the rest of Miller's Court and Dorset Street shortly thereafter.

The entire northern side of Dorset Street was completely demolished in the late 1920s, and new buildings built in its place. There was even further development of the site in the 1960s, the results of which can be seen in this photograph from 2006:



The buildings that once occupied what was the northern side of Dorset Street (including Miller's Court) are to the left of this image, and the southern side of Dorset Street was replaced by what is now the White's Row car park to the right. The car park still stands, but the buildings to the left were demolished circa 2015 and replaced with newer buildings still. More info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorset..._(Spitalfields)

[Leanne]

That photo doesn't show that Millers Court was COMPLETELY FLATTENED. Just the top floors. Look at the bottom righthand side of that photo. Couldn't they have left the passage in question out of morbid curiosity?

[Leanne]

The Northern part of the street, which included Miller's Court, was completely flattened. We even have photographs of the demolition in progress, in which Kelly's room, and the nearby arched entrance passage, can just be glimpsed among the rubble.

Edit - photographs on this thread:

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...molition-photo

Where exactly in that photo is Millers Court?

[Leanne]

I can't hear exactly what he is saying, but I can make out the words "....and cut out her heart....", "...on the bed...". "...fireplace...", and right at the end "...Mary Kelly..."

????????????????

[Leanne]

I remember reading somewhere that before the completion of the carpark over Mary Kelly's room, they agreed to allow Ripper walks.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Ripper+Victim+Mary+Kelly&&view=detail&mid=27F4C151249FF91D16C527F4C151249FF91D16C5&&FORM=VRDGAR

[Sam Flynn]

DORSET STREET SPITALFIELSDS 2016:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1RY4iKMEYE

Likewise, those buildings were bbuilt on the approximate site of the former Dorset Street, but not the original.

[Sam Flynn]

THE END OF DORSET STREET 2015:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Un8aOMTHSc

That's not the demolition of the street where Kelly et al lived, but the demolition of the buildings that were built over the site of Dorset Street after 1930 or so. Those buildings (store rooms/warehouses in the main) were until recently located parallel to White's Row car park, but have now been replaced by even newer buildings. The original Dorset Street was already long-gone before that (second) demolition took place; indeed, "Dorset Street" hadn't existed for the best part of a century when that video was made, so to label it "The End of Dorset Street" was a bit tongue-in-cheek.

[Sam Flynn]

Was it completely demolished?

The Northern part of the street, which included Miller's Court, was completely flattened. We even have photographs of the demolition in progress, in which Kelly's room, and the nearby arched entrance passage, can just be glimpsed among the rubble.

Edit - photographs on this thread:

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/ripper-discussions/scene-of-the-crimes/11084-miller-s-court-demolition-photo

[Leanne]

THE END OF DORSET STREET 2015:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Un8aOMTHSc

[Scott Nelson]

Except for my assigned parking space, which is directly over the location of MJK's bed.

Leanne, how good to see you return! I enjoyed your book on Barnett very much.

It would have been nice to see a bit more discussion and background on Joseph Fleming, though.