Double Event Timeline

[Cogidubnus]

Confronting it...Druitt et al

Lynn...You're really heading for a separate murderer for each case aren't you?

I know you're still putting all your bits and pieces together, but that's the basic thought at the back of your mind isn't it?

Brave man...

Dave

[lynn cates]

almost

Hello Dave. Essentially. Do think Polly and Annie had a single killer, though.

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

Or

Lynn...You're really heading for a separate murderer for each case aren't you?

I know you're still putting all your bits and pieces together, but that's the basic thought at the back of your mind isn't it?

Brave man...

Dave

Hi Dave et al,

I actually think it may be time for a John Kelly suspect thread, so I think I'll start one entitled: "Should We Consider John Kelly A Suspect?

Regards, Bridewell.

[lynn cates]

alternates

Hello Bridewell. Sounds interesting.

One thing must be born in mind at the outset--just because his testimony is obviously off in several places, does not make him the slayer of Kate.

Do however think he may have grasped the situation.

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Do however think he may have grasped the situation.

That is a somewhat enigmatic note even for you Lynn!

Dave

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

OK, but he found out that she was locked up and he even mentioned that he thought she'd be out next day. When she was not, why did he not seek her?

Because he expected her to return to their lodging`s. On the Sunday he wandered around the murders sites and then returned to Flower and Dean St asking if Kate had returned. On Monday he returned from working at the market to again ask if Kate had returned.

He thought Eddowes had gone to her daughter`s but had heard that she had been picked up by the Police. I suppose that once she never returned early on Sunday he assumed that she had gone to her sister`s.

Considering that Eddowes never gave her correct name and address to the Police anyway it might have been tricky if Kelly turned up at the police station. The coppers might even assume, as they were not married, that Kelly was keeping Eddowes for immoral purposes.

He may have also been in some kind of denial. Hoping that Eddowes would come through the door before he had to identify the body in Golden Lane.

[lynn cates]

message

Hello Dave. Yes, I suppose you are right.

But rather than show my hand, I prefer to titillate just a bit.

A couple of years ago I found a snippet in "The Centaur" in which a Russian police informant was lured by a Socialist gang to a certain area. There he was set upon and beaten up. They cut off both his nose and ears and left him to die. He did. A note was affixed indicating his nose was removed because he was a nark for the police; his ears, because he was an ass.

Now, without implicating a group (not my intentions at all), look at Kate's mutilations. Her nose removed, part of an ear, her eyes gashed, and (pay close attention) her mouth, almost.

Although I am not keen on elaborate symbolism, this looks like:

1. You heard what you shouldn't have heard.

2. You saw what you shouldn't have seen.

3. You said what you shouldn't have said.

4. You stuck your nose where it didn't belong.

If John knew what Kate knew, could it have served as a warning?

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Three monkeys

On which basis, poor old Liz Stride waited outside a socialist/anarchists club and didn't hear a thing...come on Lynn!

Dave

[lynn cates]

John's story

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Because he expected her to return to their lodgings. On the Sunday he wandered around the murders sites and then returned to Flower and Dean St asking if Kate had returned. On Monday he returned from working at the market to again ask if Kate had returned."

So what was he thinking?

"He thought Eddowes had gone to her daughter`s but had heard that she had been picked up by the Police. I suppose that once she never returned early on Sunday he assumed that she had gone to her sister`s."

But how did he account for her delay? Besides, the daughter had moved, as he was bloody well aware.

"Considering that Eddowes never gave her correct name and address to the Police anyway it might have been tricky if Kelly turned up at the police station."

Was John aware that she had given a false name?

"The coppers might even assume, as they were not married, that Kelly was keeping Eddowes for immoral purposes."

Are you suggesting John actually thought this? (Recall that, at inquest, he talked about her walking the streets in terms of moving from place to place.)

"He may have also been in some kind of denial. Hoping that Eddowes would come through the door before he had to identify the body in Golden Lane."

Denial? I rather like that word. To be sure. But we may have different ideas about what precisely was the object of that denial.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

in another place

Hello Dave. I intentionally omitted Liz. I am not making a suggestion about Anarchists/Socialists. That has been examined elsewhere.

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

On which basis, poor old Liz Stride waited outside a socialist/anarchists club and didn't hear a thing...come on Lynn!

Why do I think he wanted someone to post that?



Dave

[Cogidubnus]

Whoops...crossed postings...sorry!

Dave

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

But how did he account for her delay? Besides, the daughter had moved, as he was bloody well aware.

Her delay? From her daughter`s? As I wrote, he stated that he thought she might have stayed over for Sunday.

Was he aware that they had moved ? Did he know the new address? What was it?

Was John aware that she had given a false name?

Well, if she had given her correct name and address the police would have visited Flower and Dean St, just as they checked out the false address in Dorset St following the discovery that the murdered woman was the one they had in the Bishopsgate cell.

Denial? I rather like that word. To be sure. But we may have different ideas about what precisely was the object of that denial.

Well, the possible denial I speak of is the one that a woman had been murdered and Kelly`s missus was missing.

[lynn cates]

denial

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Her delay? From her daughter's? As I wrote, he stated that he thought she might have stayed over for Sunday."

Even so, that still does not explain the further delay. (By the way, if John is telling the truth about being financially wiped out, how did he pay his doss after Kate had left on Saturday? How did he eat?)

"Was he aware that they had moved?"

Yes.

"Did he know the new address? What was it?'

Possibly; possibly not. In which case, why is Kate going there anyway?

"Well, if she had given her correct name and address the police would have visited Flower and Dean St, just as they checked out the false address in Dorset St following the discovery that the murdered woman was the one they had in the Bishopsgate cell."

And John knew this? (By the way, 2 detectives went there, anyway.)

"Well, the possible denial I speak of is the one that a woman had been murdered and Kelly's missus was missing."

So he continues NOT to seek her whereabouts? No frantic search--especially as they had been discussing the WCM?

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

So he continues NOT to seek her whereabouts? No frantic search--especially as they had been discussing the WCM?

I expect the whole of Whitechapel had been discussing the WCM...but equally if the whole of Whitechapel had been so concerned every time a relative/friend was delayed, every street would've been a seething cess of searching souls (how's that for alliteration?)...

Cheers

Dave