Double Event Timeline

[DVV]

Hello David.

"Not sure Isenchmid would have been a strangler, if a murderer. It's all about knife and thundering threats with him."

Umm? Actually, I am more keen on his strangling than his knife work. Did you not read his wife's story that he tried to strangle her and he would have succeeded had not a neighbour intervened?

Cheers.
LC

Yes, she wanted to get rid of him, it seems. Otherwise, his obsession is about knife and butchery. But if the story is true, sure you have a point.

[Jon Guy]

Hello David.

"Not sure Isenchmid would have been a strangler, if a murderer. It's all about knife and thundering threats with him."

Umm? Actually, I am more keen on his strangling than his knife work. Did you not read his wife's story that he tried to strangle her and he would have succeeded had not a neighbour intervened?

Cheers.
LC

His wife of 21 years did tell the police that she did not think Joseph would injure anyone but her.

[GregBaron]

I'll only strangle her...

His wife of 21 years did tell the police that she did not think Joseph would injure anyone but her.

Like all good husbands...




Greg

[lynn cates]

timing

Hello Ruby. Fair enough. But when did he enter the yard?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

sui generis

Hello David. Thanks.

In fact, JI is the only contemporary suspect who was caught strangling a woman and wandering about with a ground down butcher's knife.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

delusions

Hello Jon.

"His wife of 21 years did tell the police that she did not think Joseph would injure anyone but her."

Quite right--OR if he were delusional and THOUGHT it were her. Recall that, at the apex of his most violent cycles, he was extremely violent and did not know what he was doing.

Cheers.
LC

[Rubyretro]

[QUOTE]

Hello Ruby. Fair enough. But when did he enter the yard?

Before BS man came along. It would make sense for Jack to prefer to
call Liz into the yard from the cover of darkness, rather than be seen by witnesses approaching her in the street. In the event, I think that she went into the yard for the reasons already given, when BS and pipeman had gone.

[lynn cates]

answer me these questions three

Hello Ruby. Very well, before 12.45.

So he was in the yard hiding at 12.40 when Eagle was about? OK, I can accept that. And Eagle never saw him because it was dark.

Three quick questions then.

1. Would he be apprehensive about Rombro (Kranz) working in the back office? (ie, going out suddenly)

2. Would he be apprehensive about the side door? (ie, someone exiting suddenly)

3. Was he in the yard around 12.15 when Wess was in the yard?

Cheers.
LC

[Malcolm X]

there's nothing that we're missing, because years ago when we looked at this murder in great detail, we were as per now..... up in the air ! no conclusion either way, because added to this we also have M.Eagle and that woman that lived up the road that saw nothing either.....we argued about this on two different forums.

now this tells you that Stride either walked off, or went right inside the yard and also, these other idiots had walked off as well, because this area after BS/ Schwartz, went totally quiet until the body was discovered.

1.....Stride did not walk away, to return later, she was there for the long haul!
2....the other blokes walked off
3.....she disapeared into the yard
thus, this area went quiet and she wasn't seen

JTR either returned later, saw her whilst spying the area but not as BS, or was killed from someone INSIDE the club....................... oh Dear !

Stride could also have been killed soon after Schwartz was chased off, this means that he would have got his times wrong and much closer to 1am.

it seems most likely that JTR chose this location to kill beforehand, he failed with regards to luring away Stride and decided to quickly kill her instead, unfortunately for him, he waited far too long, just before the cart returned home !

if he was still in that yard, he must've almost Sh***** himself

if so, he handled himself very well, especially considering that he killed again later on !!!!

now lets look at BS.... he looks drunk, plus he has not stalked her beforehand, he's not even looked behind him, or checked ahead at the crossing..... he has also broken my one golden rule, he has physically assulted her at the same moment that he went up to her !

no, this is not JTR, too careless, he's a drunk on his way home.

[lynn cates]

club

Hello Malcolm.

"or was killed from someone INSIDE the club"

Well, I can live with that.

Cheers.
LC

[Rubyretro]

1. Would he be apprehensive about Rombro (Kranz) working in the back office? (ie, going out suddenly)

Nope. It was pitch black and besides he hadn't done anything wrong.

2. Would he be apprehensive about the side door? (ie, someone exiting suddenly)

Nope. It was pitch black and besides he hadn't done anything wrong. Maybe he was pissing ?

3. Was he in the yard around 12.15 when Wess was in the yard?

I wasn't there, Lynn, so I wouldn't know.

[lynn cates]

waste products?

Hello Ruby. Thanks for that.

Your reply to #2 is something with which most Ripper researchers can identify--including me. Wasted time? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Malcolm X]

JTR would worry about someone coming out yes and someone like him, entering the yard quickly, so realising this, JTR must have killed her lightning fast.... fact!

no point him chatting her up inside the yard first, just in case someone comes out and sees him chatting to her, because with the other murders, the body was found elsewhere..... NO NO NO THIS IS HIS CHOSEN MURDER SITE!...... he must not be seen here, please remember, ``i hope this area is ok, i dont want to be seen having sex with you here``... but up the road 5 mins earlier is ok.

he is not planning to gut her, no that's not the point, JTR is never seen at the murder site..... only before and after.

dont ever ever get this wrong, JTR thus rushes her and kills her instantly.

GH if he's JTR, was never seen at the murder site when it counts... he left at 3am, distancing himself from Millers court...... JTR is not seen close enough to the murder sites and close enough to their times of death!

i want you to consider this in a simplistic back to basic way, when you query if JTR is insane or unintelligent, no he's smart.

JTR has made a real mess of his last victim, then he vanished and never killed again as JTR... why did he suddenly decide to toy with his knife starting with Eddowes. and why is MJK a careful and controlled mess... if such a thing can exist

Why compared to these victims, are the first two mutilations so tidy looking... not sure

[lynn cates]

alternatives

Hello Malcolm. I am still unsure why you think that, given these considerations, Liz would have been killed at all?

If it is a dangerous place and unfit for mutilation, why not give it a miss and go straight to Mitre sq--or Miller's court, for that matter?

Cheers.
LC

[Malcolm X]

Hello Malcolm. I am still unsure why you think that, given these considerations, Liz would have been killed at all?

If it is a dangerous place and unfit for mutilation, why not give it a miss and go straight to Mitre sq--or Miller's court, for that matter?

Cheers.
LC

hi Lynn

because i think that the chalk/ graffiti was originally intended for the gates of Dutfields, because the one thing that's very hard to find in pitch blackness and lieing in the street is Chalk, my guess is he had it in his pocket when he left home.

found lieing in the street, the chalk would be dirty, dark in colour and soaking wet, no i extremely doubt it.

the graffiti refers to the Jews and Dutfields is a ``revolutionary workers social club``, so this is a very strong link indeed, plus 2 murders in one night is very suspicious as well.

Dutfields is only a dangerous location if you mutilate there, but up the road is no more dangerous than anywhere else, Dutfields is only safe for a quick visit, which is just enough time to leave graffiti on the gate and before you leave, to dump a blood soaked piece of dress.

this is the same amout of time to quickly kill someone there, as the 2nd best alternative..... to failing in his attempt to get Stride to clear off, or to kill her up the road.

in fact, to kill Stride there, is far quicher than to write the graffiti, he only has to slit her and walk off, he does not have to lay her down or watch her die. he only needs to walk in, grab her scalf, lean her over, slit her, let go and walk out.

did he lay her down or did she simply collapse... not sure.

for A.Chapman or similar to live, she only had to say one thing to him, ``no, not now love, some other time``, thus he has to walk off because she is out in the open, in a very risky location and she's just said no, so there's no point carrying on talking to her... forget it, find someone else.

but with Stride this didn't work, because the place she chose to wait later on was perfect for a quick kill and it was also the place that JTR was intending to target later on as well, after killing her, or someone else...... regardless!

JTR was hell bent on Dutfields, so therefore he saw Stride again, 15 mins later or maybe even 1/2 an hour later.

both the killer and victim were targeting the same location that night and what killed Stride was to wait in the shadows