Double Event Timeline

[Luke111]

Ive posted this on this forum before, but id thought Id give it another shot. Ive tried to put together a timeline of the double event, where both Stride and Eddowes where killed. Looking forward to reading your responses.

Double Event Timeline


29th September 1888

• 10.00 Pm: City PC 881 Edward Watkins commences first full round on his beat, including Mitre Square.

• 12.00 AM Matthew Packer claims to have sold grapes to Elizabeth Stride and a man.

30th September 1888

• 12.35 AM Stride is seen on Berner street accompanied by an unknown man carrying a parcel, by PC William Smith.
• 12.45 AM Israel Schwartz sees a woman (he later identified her as stride) who is pulled from the gateway (to the yard were the murder was commited ) being pulled into commercial street by a man. The man screams "Lipski" at him, Schwartz leaves, and is followed by another pipe smoking man who was on the opposite side of the road.
• 1:00 AM: Louis Diemschultz enters Dutfields Yards with his cart and pony. He later reported his pony shied and refused to proceed into the yard (because of the killer who was still in the yard ?). Diemschultz discovers the body of Stride, which was still warm, according to him.
• 1:00 AM: Catherine Eddowes is seen leaving Bishopgate police station after spending the night for being drunk.
• 1:35 AM Joseph Lawende and friends see Eddowes at the corner of Duke Street and Church Passage talking to a man about 5 feet 7 inches in height.
• 1:45 AM: PC Edwards Watkins discoveres Eddowes body in Mitre Square.
• 2.20 AM: PC Alfred Long passes entrance staircase to 108-109 Wentworth Dwellings in Goulston Street without noticing anything unusual.
• 2.55 AM: PC Long passes the same spot and finds a bloody piece of a womans apron. On the wall above, the Goulston Street Graffito.

So, and I am speculating here: The killer killed Stride, was interupted by Diemschultz, fled the scene, and found new victim in Eddowes. After he killed her he cut off a piece of her apron, went to Goulston Street (in a street/area of the east end populated by many Jews), wrote the Grafitto, and left the apron underneith it. Then he vanished into the night.

Not sure about this theory though, so id like to hear your thoughts.

[Abby Normal]

Ive posted this on this forum before, but id thought Id give it another shot. Ive tried to put together a timeline of the double event, where both Stride and Eddowes where killed. Looking forward to reading your responses.

Double Event Timeline


29th September 1888

• 10.00 Pm: City PC 881 Edward Watkins commences first full round on his beat, including Mitre Square.

• 12.00 AM Matthew Packer claims to have sold grapes to Elizabeth Stride and a man.

30th September 1888

• 12.35 AM Stride is seen on Berner street accompanied by an unknown man carrying a parcel, by PC William Smith.
• 12.45 AM Israel Schwartz sees a woman (he later identified her as stride) who is pulled from the gateway (to the yard were the murder was commited ) being pulled into commercial street by a man. The man screams "Lipski" at him, Schwartz leaves, and is followed by another pipe smoking man who was on the opposite side of the road.
• 1:00 AM: Louis Diemschultz enters Dutfields Yards with his cart and pony. He later reported his pony shied and refused to proceed into the yard (because of the killer who was still in the yard ?). Diemschultz discovers the body of Stride, which was still warm, according to him.
• 1:00 AM: Catherine Eddowes is seen leaving Bishopgate police station after spending the night for being drunk.
• 1:35 AM Joseph Lawende and friends see Eddowes at the corner of Duke Street and Church Passage talking to a man about 5 feet 7 inches in height.
• 1:45 AM: PC Edwards Watkins discoveres Eddowes body in Mitre Square.
• 2.20 AM: PC Alfred Long passes entrance staircase to 108-109 Wentworth Dwellings in Goulston Street without noticing anything unusual.
• 2.55 AM: PC Long passes the same spot and finds a bloody piece of a womans apron. On the wall above, the Goulston Street Graffito.

So, and I am speculating here: The killer killed Stride, was interupted by Diemschultz, fled the scene, and found new victim in Eddowes. After he killed her he cut off a piece of her apron, went to Goulston Street (in a street/area of the east end populated by many Jews), wrote the Grafitto, and left the apron underneith it. Then he vanished into the night.

Not sure about this theory though, so id like to hear your thoughts.

Hi Luke
Sounds good to me. I would just add that before going to Goulston street, the killer went somewhere to drop of a few items and pick up a piece of chalk, which would explain why the PC did not see anything at 2:20.

[Luke111]

Might be. What kind of items are you referring to?
(i guess its a myth that the ripper washed his hands somewhere public before he wrote the grafitto )

[Abby Normal]

Might be. What kind of items are you referring to?
(i guess its a myth that the ripper washed his hands somewhere public before he wrote the grafitto )

I'll give you 3 guesses. : )

[lynn cates]

logistics

Hello Luke, Abby. If the "Ripper" stopped off before heading to Goulston, where was his stop over? In Aldgate? Where did he live?

If his stop over was in Aldgate and he lived on Goulston, then he must have had 2 places. A man of some means.

But if he lived in Aldgate, then went to Goulston, when did he return home? In the midst of the hurly-burly?

Cheers.
LC

[Adam Went]

Don't forget Morris Eagle, James Brown and our beloved (*grinds teeth*) Fanny Mortimer!

Cheers,
Adam.

[mariab]

If his stop over was in Aldgate and he lived on Goulston, then he must have had 2 places. A man of some means.

A bit too risky to leave the apron there if the perp himself lived in Goulston, Lynn. Do you subscribe to geographic profiling?
2 of the Ripper suspects had the means, and one of them most certainly could have rented 2 places.

[lynn cates]

por que

Hello Maria.

"A bit too risky to leave the apron there if the perp himself lived in Goulston, Lynn."

Agreed. But I also think it risky walking about with a piece of bloody apron.

"Do you subscribe to geographic profiling?"

Most certainly not.

"2 of the Ripper suspects had the means, and one of them most certainly could have rented 2 places."

Alright, let's follow this out. He rents 2 places. Why? Not because he plans to rip ladies, surely? So, to what purpose? And why in Goulston st if he lives in Aldgate?

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

But I also think it risky walking about with a piece of bloody apron.

Obviously he would have walked with the piece of bloody apron well hidden, possibly wrapped in something inside of one of his pockets.

He rents 2 places. Why? Not because he plans to rip ladies, surely? So, to what purpose? And why in Goulston st if he lives in Aldgate?

Lynn, there's no way that the perp rented a place at Goulston. But a member of the IWEC documentedly did. Which might have been a known fact to a local, esp. if said local was involved with the WVC and other activitites on Berner Street.
If one rents a second residence in the same town where they live, it most plausibly refers to no good. Extra-marital activities or crime might be involved.
By the by, Le Grand might have been renting a second place in Aldgate.

PS.: I'll order the AFs to be shipped to you as printouts, no microfilm, first thing tomorrow.

[Rubyretro]

So, and I am speculating here: The killer killed Stride, was interupted by Diemschultz, fled the scene, and found new victim in Eddowes. After he killed her he cut off a piece of her apron, went to Goulston Street (in a street/area of the east end populated by many Jews), wrote the Grafitto, and left the apron underneith it. Then he vanished into the night.

Not sure about this theory though, so id like to hear your thoughts.

[/QUOTE]

My speculation would be : The killer murdered Stride, fled the scene possibly because he was interrupted (but he could have always intended 2 murders, or found the place too dodgy for mutilations), and found a new victim in Eddowes. After he killed her he cut off a piece of her apron, went to Goulston
Street (..), didn't write the graffito but buzzed the rag into the doorway as quickly as possible (although intentionally targeting that building), and went home.

Re 'The Apron' thread, I would go with Long not seeing the rag when he first checked, for various reasons. However, the killer could have gone for a drink
to steady his nerves or simply stopped off to talk to someone he knew in the street -how would we know ?- before dropping the apron. He might have wanted to be seen behaving normally, and not covered in blood, after the killing, in order to avert suspicion to feel clever and crafty. Timelines are interesting, but there are too many unknown factors.

[lynn cates]

Aldgate and stuff

Hello Maria.

"Obviously he would have walked with the piece of bloody apron well hidden, possibly wrapped in something inside of one of his pockets.'

As you wish. But let's say his testosterone levels are higher than mine.

"Lynn, there's no way that the perp rented a place at Goulston. But a member of the IWEC documentedly did.'

Very well, and . . . ?

"Which might have been a known fact to a local, esp. if said local was involved with the WVC and other activities on Berner Street."

Possibly. But . . . ?

"If one rents a second residence in the same town where they live, it most plausibly refers to no good. Extra-marital activities or crime might be involved."

So might a good income. A suspect known to have rented a house in Aldgate would be . . . ?

"By the by, Le Grand might have been renting a second place in Aldgate."

Alright. How strong is the "might" here?

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Hello Lynn.
I'll be investigating all this, as well as you-know-whose bank account (pertaining to which, remind me to ask you for help, if possible, about Pịtr Rachkovsky's bank connection). It's still too early to say.

[lynn cates]

research

Hello Maria. Be delighted. Good research project.

Cheers.
LC

[Rubyretro]

"If one rents a second residence in the same town where they live, it most plausibly refers to no good. Extra-marital activities or crime might be involved."

So might a good income. A suspect known to have rented a house in Aldgate would be . . . ?

Not at all (I have done this, and know people that do). It may be for a perfectly innocent business activity, or to get some space to paint or something (so obviously the luxury of being able to make priorities in your income is a factor, even if you're not rich).

[Adam Went]

Please don't tell me that theory is still abounding that a member of the IWMEC was in some way involved in the Stride/JTR murders?

Cheers,
Adam.