The mind of "Jack The Ripper"`

[corey123]

Victemology

If you want to hear my theory anyways(victem) then I shall.

My opinion is the first victem taken by "Jack The Ripper" is Martha Tabram. I belive the reason for a different M.O is becaue a killer,like all humans, learns with experience. I belive he killed her with a different style(which did not satisfy him) but with the same intentions, mutilation of the victem. She was stabbed 39 times if I am correct and that, to me, is a fair way to mutilates someone in my opinion.

The second, Polly ,was murdered by him as well. He tried a new method of killing which DID statisfy him, also with the same intentions. As the same with annie.

With Stride, I do belive she was a victem, I belive that what schwartz saw may have been a misinterpretation as something else. I note that he was scared, scared enough to flee, so he probally was panicing and may have not seen what had actually prospired and saw someone totally different. I may be wrong. he saw that at 12:45 and her body was found at !:00 which gives us 15 minutes, and schwartz probally calculated the time to after he fled so we I belive a more probable time to be at 12:35-12:40. Withing that time liz walks into dutsfeild yard. upon leaving I belive the ripper tried yet another method, using partially the same M.O. but not approaching the victem, rather "blitz" styling her. This didnt satisfy him and he was interupted and fled down the ally.

With Kate I belive he still held the urge to mutilate so her found her, applying the same tactics for the second and third victem.

For the last Kelly, I belive the reason for the killing was inside was infact due to circumstances not that he choose to do it but maybe was again experimenting. also taking his mutilating to a new level.

These are my personal opinions and I have thought hard on them..
yours truly

[The Grave Maurice]

I'm not sure how old you are, Corey, but I suspect that I have been thinking about this much longer than you have and, I must say, I pretty much agree with your theory completely. My only quibble is that I believe Schwartz witnessed an encounter that preceded the arrival of JtR.

[corey123]

Indeed

I am pretty young and from what I have seen I dont have as much experiance as you do but I truly belive that Jack was a learn and go killer.He tried out many different style and found one he liked. He,in my opinion, wasnt very rigid at all,not really sticking with a M.O. all the way through the killings.If you dont mind, may I ask, what is your theory??


yours truly

[perrymason]

Hi again,

I have a question regarding the threads premise.....to suppose a mental state or condition about Jack the Ripper I would think that you would need some baseline of victims, and in Coreys case and Grave Maurices, that seems to be the Canonical Group as a whole. In which case the killers behaviors and methods that varied within that group would have to be reconciled.

I think most often that is done by assuming these were victims of a serial killer, and as such, the deviations and anomalies are likely a result of reactive behaviours based on the immediate stimuli of the environments and situations. For example, he cuts Mary to pieces because the venue allowed for him to have more time and privacy. He only cuts Liz once because the cart and horse scared him off.

That seems to me to suggest a man that wanted to kill and cut impulsively, not someone who went out to achieve pre-existing objectives.

Well, in the case of the first 2 murders within the Canon the coroner and senior medical authorities believed that both women might have been killed so the killer could obtain the organ only successfully taken from the 2nd victim. That suggests a pre-existing objective.

When there is no physical evidence that can be used to suggest the same kind of single minded killing for any other Canonical murder aside from Kates, .....(no-one has ever suggested that what was done to Mary was done so he could facilitate the heart removal, but again, it was suggested about Polly and Annies murders), I would think the most we could look at to assess the question of the thread are killings that seem most "alike".

And that would be 3, at most, of the 5 Canonicals.

To me that suggests that the Canonical Group likely contains victims of different murderers, and as such, is an invalid baseline to use as a barometer of Jacks probable mental capacities.

Cause the man that killed those 3 women had knife skills and some anatomical knowledge, and that hints at education and a mind that can be controlled.

All the best

[corey123]

theory

That is an interesting theory. So you personally believe only polly,annie, and eddowes to be ripper victems? Can you tell me which victems you link together, because I see a behavioral pattern in the killings, a pattern that sugests like you said he could control his mind, and in my opinion pointed to a killer looking for a quicker and more efficiant kill. But also expressing his rage towards women.

[corey123]

Thoughts

Anyone else find certain behavioral patters with any of the victems as I have?

[c.d.]

It's victims, Corey, not victems.

c.d.

[corey123]

Please only comments dealing with victims.

Thanks C.D. but as you can tell this is a thread for another subject non related to grammer thank, I have been doing good with my grammer(or at least what I can help)and am grateful for peoples corrections, but there is a point where it gets a bit annoying if you know what I mena, so please only related issues.

best regards.

[c.d.]

Hi Michael,

Not too long ago I reported a story that appeared on the local news. A young woman was the victim of an attempted rape. She screamed for help and attempted to fight him off. Fortunately for her she was successful and the man ran off. Since rapists by definition rape, are we to assume that he was not a rapist or that suddenly he lost his desire to rape in mid-attack? You are arguing that since Liz was not mutilated it couldn't be Jack. As in the above story, could there be any possible reason why he did not do so or is it simply an open and shut case? He didn't mutilate and therefore there is no way that he could be Jack.

c.d.

[perrymason]

Hi Michael,

Not too long ago I reported a story that appeared on the local news. A young woman was the victim of an attempted rape. She screamed for help and attempted to fight him off. Fortunately for her she was successful and the man ran off. Since rapists by definition rape, are we to assume that he was not a rapist or that suddenly he lost his desire to rape in mid-attack? You are arguing that since Liz was not mutilated it couldn't be Jack. As in the above story, could there be any possible reason why he did not do so or is it simply an open and shut case? He didn't mutilate and therefore there is no way that he could be Jack.

c.d.

I know I tend to portray this issue as purely "Black and White" cd, and I know that few people see this murder or any Canonical murder in such finite terms. When emotional whirlwinds like Lust and Anger fuel the fires you really never know what people will do in certain circumstances, but, ...in terms of motivators for killing, they are not all are based in either of those 2 emotions. Some are more clinical murderers. Killing a witness for example. Or killing for economic gain.

When I see murders that suggest the killer cuts into the victim only when they are unconscious and not resisting, I see something that hints at a killer who is not doing this just for the "Kill Kick". The actual murder of these women, some of them, sounds like it was very controlled and quiet....and quick. To perform what is done to Annie and Kate in particular....(Polly moreso due to the venue)....shows us that the majority of the time he is with a victim is spent accessing and cutting organs free. In Kates case particularly, that is a prominent detail.

I dont think the man that killed Polly, or Annie needs to be mentally ill in the manner that we seek to categorize him here. Cold, yes. Without remorse, yes. Clinical and dispassionate, yes. Ruthless, yes. Cruel, undetermined. Overtly Mentally challenged, undetermined.. but unlikely. Incapable of self control,...demonstrably incorrect.

That wouldnt lead to a profile of a man like Kosminski maybe, but it would to a man like Leather Apron sounds like......(I for one dont believe Pizer was LA by the way.)

Cheers cd, all the best.

[corey123]

Pizer

Mike,
There we stand on stable ground, I also belive Pizer to be innocent of the claims of him being "Leather apron".

yours truly

[lynn cates]

stable

Hello Corey.

"There we stand on stable ground"

Well, that was nearly true for both Polly and Liz. (Sorry, I needed a bit of mirth.)

The best.
LC

[perrymason]

Hi again,

I thought I should temper my tendency to give credence to a story that Baxter thought that was relevant in the cases of Polly and Annie, and add that the reason the women were killed in paramount in these cases. If this was blood lust or some uncontrolled mania or psychopathy we should see that erratic behavior and mindset in some of the acts performed.

I dont think that is the case with the first 2 victims. I believe that the acts performed were directly related to the achievement of the "final objective", which was probably in both cases the extraction of an organ or 2 from the women's abdomens, or specifically the organs taken from Annie's.

There is so little to work with in Strides case that we'll likely never be able to absolutely reconcile that with the same killer to the satisfaction of the majority of the students, but in Kate's case there is some erratic and seemingly meaningless activity...in that not all that was done was to serve the "final objective"...as the first 2 cases seem to have in common.

She has her nose almost severed from her face, she has cuts under her eyes and through her eyelids, she has a 2 foot piece of colon placed between her body and left arm, and she has a very sloppy "rip" up her middle with stabs and cuts in and around the pubic area.

But the man does do something rather remarkable if his "final objective" included her kidney, because taking it out in the dark through her midsection while she lay face up is not something a novice or unskilled laborer could do. I think the skill exhibited is what ties this crime to the first 2, despite the variances and superfluous acts.

Thats not to say that the man or men who killed Polly and Annie had to have been the man or men that killed Kate, just that both or all of the men had some knife skills and knowledge of what they were doing.

That doesnt apply to Marys case obviously, because there is no such skill evident and plenty of superfluous time wasters...but there are those skin flaps.....that were seen with Annie.

If thats the only real similarity in the acts performed then I would suggest that the flaps were simply learned through the press coverage prior to the killing. I dont think other than the flaps one act in room 13 was skillfully executed.......yet the killer of Polly, Annie and Kate all had at least one act that showed some of both attributes.

Thats why I think the mind of the Ripper must be dealt with using a logical victim base....this may have just been one cold son of a bitch.

Best regards all

[corey123]

Proof of behavior

I have also found a similar behavior pattern in the "Zodiac" case.

On December 20th 1968, A couple parked on a gravel parking area along lake Herman Road were murdered. David Arthur Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen. The killer approached the car and shot the rear right window out, apparently trying to force them out of the vehicle. He shot Faraday as he emerged point blank in the head and then shot Jensen five times in the back as she fled. The murder weapon was a 22 semi-automatic pistol.

On July 4th 1969, the zodiac struck again. This time murdering Darlene Elizabeth Ferrin and Mike Renault Mageau in a secluded parking lot in Blue RockSprings park. A car pulled up next to them and a man with a flashlight exited the car and preceaded to their vehicle. Without any words the man took out a pistol and began fireing. After five shots he left. Ferrin died from five shots and Mageau survided being shot four times. This time he used a 9mm semi-automatic pistol.

Next, on September 27th,1969 the zodiac killed again, using a different m.o. all together. The victims were Cecelia Ann Shepard and Bryan Calvin Hartnell. The couple was killed on a shore line of lake Berryessa. They were laying on a blankit when Shepard noticed a man in a "unusual costume" and a gun walk up towards them. He tied them together with a plastic closeline and began stabbing them. Hartnell was attacked first, then Shepard. After the attack the Unsub walked causually away from the scene leaving them to die. Shepard was stabbed five times in her front and back, and died on the 29th from her injuries, and Hartnell stabbed 6 times in the back, he survived.

The last victem was unusual. It was one man. Named Paul Lee Stine. He was killed on October 11,1969 on washington cherry st. He was shot point blank in the head by a 9mm semi-automatic pistol.

The zodiac killer showed the same behavior of a learn and go killer as I see with Jack the Ripper.

yours truly

[perrymason]

I have also found a similar behavior pattern in the "Zodiac" case.

On December 20th 1968, A couple parked on a gravel parking area along lake Herman Road were murdered. David Arthur Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen. The killer approached the car and shot the rear right window out, apparently trying to force them out of the vehicle. He shot Faraday as he emerged point blank in the head and then shot Jensen five times in the back as she fled. The murder weapon was a 22 semi-automatic pistol.

On July 4th 1969, the zodiac struck again. This time murdering Darlene Elizabeth Ferrin and Mike Renault Mageau in a secluded parking lot in Blue RockSprings park. A car pulled up next to them and a man with a flashlight exited the car and preceaded to their vehicle. Without any words the man took out a pistol and began fireing. After five shots he left. Ferrin died from five shots and Mageau survided being shot four times. This time he used a 9mm semi-automatic pistol.

Next, on September 27th,1969 the zodiac killed again, using a different m.o. all together. The victims were Cecelia Ann Shepard and Bryan Calvin Hartnell. The couple was killed on a shore line of lake Berryessa. They were laying on a blankit when Shepard noticed a man in a "unusual costume" and a gun walk up towards them. He tied them together with a plastic closeline and began stabbing them. Hartnell was attacked first, then Shepard. After the attack the Unsub walked causually away from the scene leaving them to die. Shepard was stabbed five times in her front and back, and died on the 29th from her injuries, and Hartnell stabbed 6 times in the back, he survived.

The last victem was unusual. It was one man. Named Paul Lee Stine. He was killed on October 11,1969 on washington cherry st. He was shot point blank in the head by a 9mm semi-automatic pistol.

The zodiac killer showed the same behavior of a learn and go killer as I see with Jack the Ripper.

yours truly

What we know of Zodiak is that he wanted to kill.....what we know about Jack is that he killed to enable what he really wanted to do......which was cut into cadavers and take out organs.

I can see a man who wants to kill trying a variety of methods to satisfy his need to cause death.....but I dont see Jack as having a need to cause death. His needs were visceral, not emotional.

Best regards