DNA From Children

[Ally]

So can anyone explain how tracking someone's drug test through their DNA sequence would work?

Because basically a DNA profile looks something like (creative rendition) This:




And they are going to say That guy: Mr dash line dash line line tested positive for meth, but how would the possibly know who dash line dash line line was? I mean wouldn't it have been easier to track them via their name and say Bob Smith tested positive for meth?

Seems a very expensive and time consuming way of keeping track of someone drug results. Not to mention how did they ever connect dash line dash line line to Bob Smith if Bob Smith is a civilian contractor since they aren't required to give a DNA sample?

Not to mention, considering how long it takes for a DNA profile in the matter of a murder, how long precisely did it take for these DNA profiles to be found from a cup of pee (which may not have even contained any usable DNA) to all be adequately tested?

And yeah Smez, after your last post there you've lost any moral highground. So your indignation over my tin foil hat comment rings a bit hollow now.

[Ally]

Ah..which basically means that you can't actually answer any of the questions put to you.

Accepted.

[smezenen]

[QUOTE=Ally;89513][QUOTE=smezenen;89511]

I didn't challenge the fact that it was on file. I said choosing to join the armed forces was a VOLUNTEER effort. You chose to do it. It was not the government FORCING you to do so.




First of all, I don't believe that you gave a drug test to every single soldier and civilian government employee every year. Absolutely flat out, do not believe it. However, let's suppose that your little corner of the armed forces DID in fact test every single member, once again: armed forces, volunteer. This does not translate to EVERY single government agency like you said. Every single government agency DOES NOT collect a drug test every year. Flat out. Does not.

And considering that there would be maybe a scant few DNA cells of the person available in every sample, I truly do not believe that someone sat there and analysed the cup of pee to find the DNA profile of the soldier and tracked it via DNA. Considering that the vast majority of drug testing in the last ten years requires a pee and dip a stick, where precisely did this elaborate DNA profiling take place? You guys sent every cup of pee to an Lab to have the DNA of the soldier tracked? and you all got back your DNA coded pee from every single soldier and civilian employee....in what...a year?



Once again, a service YOU volunteered your child for. You CHOSE to give your child's DNA to the FBI, effectively screwing their privacy.



Oh. More personal accounts that have no factual basis or any evidence to back up the assertion. Got it. Considering that hospitals are lucky if they don't manage to cut off your balls when you go in for an appendectomy, who knew that they were all so well run that the surgeon or tech could identify everyone who was a patient of medicare to collect a sample. Uh huh. Ayup.

Ally,
you may chose to believe what you like and if i touched a nerve then im sorry but in the end i refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed and uninformed person. good day madam.

[smezenen]

But Smez, every one of those things is good thing and done for a reason. Roy

Roy,
I didnt say it was a bad thing, in fact I believe its a very good thing. If my post lead anyone to think I condemn the practice then let me correct the record having everyones DNA on file, with their permission, is a good thing.

[Ally]

[QUOTE=smezenen;89511][QUOTE=Ally;89507]

2- im a retired soldier so thats how i know we soldiers have ours on file and yes its for identification purposes why else would it be on file DUH.

I didn't challenge the fact that it was on file. I said choosing to join the armed forces was a VOLUNTEER effort. You chose to do it. It was not the government FORCING you to do so.

3- part of my job as a soldier was to perform duties as the drug and alchol prevention officer. I administered the annual urinalisis to other soldiers and to civilian government empployees that work on the base i was assigned to and guess what we tracked results thru the DNA in the proteins in the urin.

First of all, I don't believe that you gave a drug test to every single soldier and civilian government employee every year. Absolutely flat out, do not believe it. However, let's suppose that your little corner of the armed forces DID in fact test every single member, once again: armed forces, volunteer. This does not translate to EVERY single government agency like you said. Every single government agency DOES NOT collect a drug test every year. Flat out. Does not.

And considering that there would be maybe a scant few DNA cells of the person available in every sample, I truly do not believe that someone sat there and analysed the cup of pee to find the DNA profile of the soldier and tracked it via DNA. Considering that the vast majority of drug testing in the last ten years requires a pee and dip a stick, where precisely did this elaborate DNA profiling take place? You guys sent every cup of pee to an Lab to have the DNA of the soldier tracked? and you all got back your DNA coded pee from every single soldier and civilian employee....in what...a year?

4- the lost child service that my children are registered with submitte dDNA samples to the FBI repository so that If my children ever become missing the could be (dare i say it) identified.

Once again, a service YOU volunteered your child for. You CHOSE to give your child's DNA to the FBI, effectively screwing their privacy.

5- My wife is a medical administrative assistant one of here duties right now is to digitize old medical records that means she sees alot of them and most of the ones she is dealing wth these days are Medicare records and they require a DNA sample be entered for anyh surgery.

Oh. More personal accounts that have no factual basis or any evidence to back up the assertion. Got it. Considering that hospitals are lucky if they don't manage to cut off your balls when you go in for an appendectomy, who knew that they were all so well run that the surgeon or tech could identify everyone who was a patient of medicare to collect a sample. Uh huh. Ayup.

[smezenen]

[QUOTE=Ally;89507]What a crock of crap. Let me guess, you wear a tinfoil hat when you sleep and believe the illuminati are secretly controlling the world, don't you?

First of all, the concept of a soldier being required to submit DNA would be logical in cases of needing to identify the body. And, it should be noted, joining the armed forces is also voluntary. Registering a missing child service is ALSO a voluntary enterprise that parents can undertake in the event of their child being kidnapped. No one is forced to do it and it's the resort of hysterical parents who also tag their kids with GPS and other assorted whatnot. And the information is stored with the parents, since it makes no sense for a not for profit to have a registry of millions of kids who will never be kidnapped.



Wrong again. First of all it is completely NOT cost effective to test millions and millions of government employees every year for drugs. It doesn't happen. Second of all, urine is the LEAST effective means of gathering DNA due to the low amount of DNA material available. So the idea is just plain daft.



I call the bullshit flag. On what basis do you make this claim? Because I have not been able to find a single viable source for it.



And yet again, bullshit flag. The ACLU has already fought and won several cases of attempting to collect DNA without proper cause. All of the above is the hysterical ranting of right wing militia "the guv'ment's going to get me" types.

There is no basis in actual fact for any of the above.

1- i dont remeber calling you names or insulting you ever so dont get that way with me. no i dont wear a tinfoil hat

2- im a retired soldier so thats how i know we soldiers have ours on file and yes its for identification purposes why else would it be on file DUH.

3- part of my job as a soldier was to perform duties as the drug and alchol prevention officer. I administered the annual urinalisis to other soldiers and to civilian government empployees that work on the base i was assigned to and guess what we tracked results thru the DNA in the proteins in the urin.

4- the lost child service that my children are registered with submitte dDNA samples to the FBI repository so that If my children ever become missing the could be (dare i say it) identified.

5- My wife is a medical administrative assistant one of here duties right now is to digitize old medical records that means she sees alot of them and most of the ones she is dealing wth these days are Medicare records and they require a DNA sample be entered for anyh surgery.

6- the ACLU will get a chance to fight it but only if your right are infringed upon such as the 5th amendment which says you can not be made to make statements or give evidence that would be self incriminating. if however there is other evidence that you commited a crime then DNA evidence already on file could be used against you. also read the statements you are signing when you go into the hspital for testing or take a urinalisis test for your employer they all have a statement that you are giving you permission for testing so in effect you are waiving your rights when you sign them.

If I where you I wouldnt jump to condem someone before you find out where they get their information. If you chose not to believe my information then dont thats your right but to make personal attacks is i believe against the policies of this website.

[Ally]

ok, so for all of my fellow American that are posting on this thread and saying it will never happen here. Guess what?. We are already well into a system simular to this.

What a crock of crap. Let me guess, you wear a tinfoil hat when you sleep and believe the illuminati are secretly controlling the world, don't you?

[QUOTE]

For at least a decade now all of your uniformed fighting men and women have been required to give a DNA sample.

If you have registered your child with any of the "lost child" services in the last 5 years their DNA is on file.

First of all, the concept of a soldier being required to submit DNA would be logical in cases of needing to identify the body. And, it should be noted, joining the armed forces is also voluntary. Registering a missing child service is ALSO a voluntary enterprise that parents can undertake in the event of their child being kidnapped. No one is forced to do it and it's the resort of hysterical parents who also tag their kids with GPS and other assorted whatnot. And the information is stored with the parents, since it makes no sense for a not for profit to have a registry of millions of kids who will never be kidnapped.

If you work for any government agengy you are required to submit to an annual drug test that is tracked by DNA they get the DNA from the protien in your urin.

Wrong again. First of all it is completely NOT cost effective to test millions and millions of government employees every year for drugs. It doesn't happen. Second of all, urine is the LEAST effective means of gathering DNA due to the low amount of DNA material available. So the idea is just plain daft.

If you have had any surgery in the last 10 years that MediCare has paid any part of, your DNA is on file.

I call the bullshit flag. On what basis do you make this claim? Because I have not been able to find a single viable source for it.

If Obama's uniform health care plan gets passed in the next session of congress you will be required to give a DNA sample in order to obtain health insurance. thats any health insurance not just government funded but private also.

And yet again, bullshit flag. The ACLU has already fought and won several cases of attempting to collect DNA without proper cause. All of the above is the hysterical ranting of right wing militia "the guv'ment's going to get me" types.

There is no basis in actual fact for any of the above.

[Roy Corduroy]

But Smez, every one of those things is good thing and done for a reason. Armed Forces folks give DNA fto ID their remains if need be should they give their life in service to their country. You WANT your child's DNA to be registered for the lost children program. That's why you do it. Of course US employees are tested. They work for us. Why do I care if my mother's DNA is on file? She's on Medicare and she never hurt a flea. I really don't want to get into the BHO health proposal. I have health insurance because I put myself through college and like it or not I get up and go to work every day. But again, that's a different story.

And besides, we Americans have hijacked this thread, which Stephen started, about English police work. Sorry.

Now carry on.

Roy

[smezenen]

ok, so for all of my fellow American that are posting on this thread and saying it will never happen here. Guess what?. We are already well into a system simular to this. For at least a decade now all of your uniformed fighting men and women have been required to give a DNA sample. If you have registered your child with any of the "lost child" services in the last 5 years their DNA is on file. If you work for any government agengy you are required to submit to an annual drug test that is tracked by DNA they get the DNA from the protien in your urin. If you have had any surgery in the last 10 years that MediCare has paid any part of, your DNA is on file. The FBI has the largest repository of DNA information in the world and 99% of it is American DNA. If Obama's uniform health care plan gets passed in the next session of congress you will be required to give a DNA sample in order to obtain health insurance. thats any health insurance not just government funded but private also.

[Roy Corduroy]

Stephen thanks for sharing this, it's a great idea. An example of proactive, preventive police work in England. Exactly what we need in the US, where we have an epidemic of crime, from petty theft to 19,000 murders a year.

Some states already drug test folks signing up for government assistance. (click) We could also require a DNA swab of welfare mothers, then all their offspring's mtDNA would be in the database. An efficient use of resources.

Roy

[Brenda]

ACLU, rah rah rah!

If they REALLY want to build a database, why not just make it mandatory that every child gets swabbed before they enter school? If you're going to take away peoples' rights, no need to be sneaky about it.

[Ally]

Donations and dues from members primarily. But also awards settlements from trials, publications, etc.

[Graham]

American Civil Liberties Union. Dedicated to preserving our constitutionally protected freedoms. They will often take up a case for someone if their rights have been infringed upon and pay for all the legal fees involved especially in cases that could challenge constitutional protections.

Where does their income come from?

G

[Ally]

American Civil Liberties Union. Dedicated to preserving our constitutionally protected freedoms. They will often take up a case for someone if their rights have been infringed upon and provide free lawyers especially in cases that could challenge constitutional protections.

[Sam Flynn]

ACLU? Wassat?

Don't ask me... I haven't ACLU either