choked rather than strangled

[harry]

In Kelly's case,it is likely that being November and quite cold,and wearing a minimum of clothing,she was in bed with bed clothes over her and only her head showing.In such a position she would have been very vulnerable to an attack,with little means of defence.A person astride her might have a choice of rendering her unconcious or killing her with minimum effort.

[Pinkerton]

I always imagined it was an arm around the throat from behind, jerked upward, with blade to throat immediately with free hand, severing blood vessels as well as trachea in one swipe. Even if she didn't pass out from the choke hold, the cut silenced all cries. The spray may hit under a sleeve but mainly would be faced away. The murderer would just have to release his hold, or release and step back, for the body to fall. Was it proven the shoulder and collarbone bruises on Liz were caused immediately prior to death? However, it is entirely possible a different means of immobilization was used for each-- trying to perfect his style, or just whatever was most expediant at the time.

LadyG, this is what the doctor's of the time seemed to think as well. However I would maintain that for the first four victims (excluding MJK) they are mistaken. EVEN IF the killer cut their throat AND severed the windpipe in one cut they STILL would have been a sound, and they would not immediately have been unconscious like many speculate. I don't want to be gruesome but when soldiers have their windpipe's cut they STILL can make sound along with a very loud gurgling. There have also been many cases where a person had a jugular vein and or/carotid artery cut, and they did NOT become unconscious within seconds. It took a few MINUTES for this to happen. I unfortunately witnessed this watching a hockey game once (a goalie had his jugular cut). I believe that BOTH carotid arteries would need to be cut to produce unconsciousness in seconds (similar to a choke). I'm not sure just how realistic it is to be able to accomplish this with a single cut of the knife. However we would probably need to ask a forensic pathologist to answer this.

I believe another reason that it is believed that the Ripper victims were strangled/choked first was the lack of arterial blood spray. Had their throats been cut first one would have expected blood to have been sprayed quite a distance from the victims, instead of just pooled underneath them.

[Jon Guy]

I believe another reason that it is believed that the Ripper victims were strangled/choked first was the lack of arterial blood spray. Had their throats been cut first one would have expected blood to have been sprayed quite a distance from the victims, instead of just pooled underneath them.

Hello Pinkerton

I believe there was some kind of interference with breathing, I think it may have been a hand over the mouth and nose whilst standing behind the victim (see Nichol`s nose in the mortuary photo).The scratches on Nichols and Chapman would still work this way.

In the case of Chapman there was arterial spray on the fence. I think the killer tipped them slightly over once the initial entrance wound is made.

Although I would not rule out the choke hold.

[LadyG]

Hi Pinkerton.
It's okay, don't think you were gruesome. I understand the workings of death by cut throat, having been employed both in medical and police fields. As mentioned elsewhere earlier, proper pressure on neck/throat and blood vessels can cause unconsciousness, and death by having one's throat cut is never immediate. Allowing for shock, restraint, covering/immobilizing victims jaw/mouth, it is still possibly quite successful. MK is generally accepted out of the mix, as the others were dealt with on the street and in upright position. The need to overpower swiftly and get to business most important. Anyway, it is the method I would use.