Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection.

[Sam Flynn]

I thought Cream was ruled out because he was in Joilet prison at the time of the murders?

My point was only to support John's cogent observation that there was a large number of (independent) killers of lower class women in London during the latter decades of the 19th century, with an apparent spike in the 1880s and 1890s.

[Fisherman]

I am reading here about how in planned sexual homicides the perpetrator can go into a frenzy. Nothing is stopping them. Seems Ted Bundy was like this also.

It goes without saying that a planned murder can turn to a frenzy, just as a frenzy can taper off and go into a investigative and controlled killing. Neither development is to be expected, though, which is why I am making the point that the two matters are and remain polar opposites. If our ideas take us to a point where we must accept that a totally unexpected development takes precedence over an expected one, we may need to rethink things.

[Batman]

It goes without saying that a planned murder can turn to a frenzy, just as a frenzy can taper off and go into a investigative and controlled killing. Neither development is to be expected, though, which is why I am making the point that the two matters are and remain polar opposites. If our ideas take us to a point where we must accept that a totally unexpected development takes precedence over an expected one, we may need to rethink things.

Serial Killers, their methods, psychology, behaviors are unexpected developments in themselves and there is often much conflicting and contradictory in what they do and even who they are.

All we can do is point to databases and use collective data to point out elements and criteria that are common with attacks. A lot of it is not going to make any sense to rational people.

There are organized offenders, disorganized offenders, and semi both of those and then we have killers who appear to go into a frenzy in all those types of offenses and then we have killers who don't and then we have killers who seem to bounce between all of them, like Ted Bundy. What was Ted Bundy's MO or Signature? That the crime scene looked like a shark attack apparently and little else. Ted Bundy was focused so much on victimology and a certain look that his MO and Signature varied considerably. I believe it was his ex-fiancee Elizebeth Kloepfer's looks that he went for.

In the end, a 'frenzy' on Tabram doesn't rule out we are looking at JtR. We could say the same about Kelly.

[Harry D]

HI DK
I think the ripper rendered them unconscious first by strangling and or punching knocking them out.

This, imo, is one of the most overlooked aspects of the Ripper case: how did the killer incapacitate his victims so stealthily. Strangulation sounds all well and good, but these were tough girls. They would've fought tooth and nail with their attacker. How on earth didn't anyone hear anything suspicious?

[Harry D]

Thus, I assume most of us agree that Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes were by the same hand. But that still leaves the two early torso murders, the Tottenham torso, the four latter torso murders, Tabram, Mylett, McKenzie, Coles, Ellen Bury, Ronan, Kelly, Austin (the Dorset Street trio) and, finally, Chapman's "wives"!

I know people hate the 'c word' but if the Torso & Ripper murders were not committed by the same man, then I would not rule out some kind of conspiracy. By their very nature I don't think these murders were unrelated.

[Darryl Kenyon]

This, imo, is one of the most overlooked aspects of the Ripper case: how did the killer incapacitate his victims so stealthily. Strangulation sounds all well and good, but these were tough girls. They would've fought tooth and nail with their attacker. How on earth didn't anyone hear anything suspicious?

Hi Harry It is a fair point, that's why I personally feel Jack was physically strong and had a job which was manual, and possibly involved some form of killing or knowledge on how to kill. Maybe a slaughter-man or butcher comes to mind, and maybe his job involved moving the carcasses. Just a thought.

[Batman]

A police officer fits two important elements.

Has a lantern for lack of light. Ability to silently render a target incapacitated.

So do many others, but the PC has them all at the ready.

[John G]

No doubt. However he switched to plastercasts and feigning incapacity didn't he?

Yes, I think Bundy's a typical example of a killer who had organized and disorganized traits.

Personally I regard JtR as largely disorganised, and he must have had a lot of luck to avoid being caught. For instance, Nichols was murdered in the open at a time when people were leaving for work; the killer must have been lucky to avoid being caught in the act, i.e. by Lechmere, or if Lechmere was the perpetrator by Paul.

Chapman was killed and eviscerated in daylight, again at at time when locals were leaving for work, and in a location where he coukd easily have found himself hemmed in, therefore trapped.

Mitre Square was dark, or darkish, but regularly patrolled by two police officers, and the perpetrator was probably seen with the victim by Lawende and Levy.

[Batman]

Yes, I think Bundy's a typical example of a killer who had organized and disorganized traits.

Personally I regard JtR as largely disorganised, and he must have had a lot of luck to avoid being caught. For instance, Nichols was murdered in the open at a time when people were leaving for work; the killer must have been lucky to avoid being caught in the act, i.e. by Lechmere, or if Lechmere was the perpetrator by Paul.

Chapman was killed and eviscerated in daylight, again at at time when locals were leaving for work, and in a location where he coukd easily have found himself hemmed in, therefore trapped.

Mitre Square was dark, or darkish, but regularly patrolled by two police officers, and the perpetrator was probably seen with the victim by Lawende and Levy.

Yeah, JtR seems to be a mostly disorganized offender. However, even the most disorganized offender model argues that he knows the streets and backways and escape routes along with being able to avoid police beats. As you say, it is not to the point of being completely invisible as there appears to have been sightings of JtR with Eddowes (not to mention Schwartz, Cox and Hutchinson and a few others that may have tagged him).

In a way, the Marauder model and Commuter models seem to conflict a bit. Commuters generally don't mind been seen because they won't be recognized from the area. Marauders are very worried about being seen because they are from the area. Commuter doesn't explain knowledge of escape routes and avoiding police beats. Marauder doesn't explain that he is being seen.

[Sam Flynn]

but these were tough girls. They would've fought tooth and nail with their attacker.

I'm not so sure that would have applied to Chapman, who was sickly and under-nourished, or Eddowes, whose mortuary photograph shows that she was a slight woman, barely skin and bone. There's not much data on Polly Nichols, but we do know that she was a comparatively small woman, only 5' 2" tall, and she was seen to be drunk and very unsteady on her feet by a reliable witness, barely an hour before her murder. Tabram, whilst certainly a more substantial woman than any of the C5, had been on a drinking binge.

The only victims who were in reasonable shape were arguably Stride and Kelly, although they had been drinking too. However, there's evidence that both women put up some sort of a struggle before death, and perhaps they were the only ones who did.

[Sam Flynn]

A police officer fits two important elements.

Has a lantern for lack of light.

Not necessary, and tricky anyway; how do you hold a lantern in one hand and remove a uterus/kidney with the other?

Ability to silently render a target incapacitated.

So do many others, but the PC has them all at the ready.

Quite - so do many others. A stout man in his thirties, for example, could easily overpower the likes of Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes, and wouldn't take long to subdue a Stride or a Kelly after a brief struggle. As to Tabram, simply bang her head against the steps and she's instantly disorientated and shocked, if not stunned.

[Batman]

Not necessary, and tricky anyway; how do you hold a lantern in one hand and remove a uterus/kidney with the other?
Quite - so do many others. A stout man in his thirties, for example, could easily overpower the likes of Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes, and wouldn't take long to subdue a Stride or a Kelly after a brief struggle. As to Tabram, simply bang her head against the steps and she's instantly disorientated and shocked, if not stunned.

I would assume he would put the lantern down.

[Sam Flynn]

Marauders are very worried about being seen because they are from the area.

Perhaps not in the anonymous and overcrowded slums of Late Victorian London.

[Sam Flynn]

I would assume he would put the lantern down.

Then pick it up again, and put it back down again, as he went along?

Like I said, though, there's no reason to suppose that any extra light was needed.

[Batman]

Then pick it up again, and put it back down again, as he went along?

Like I said, though, there's no reason to suppose that any extra light was needed.

Well if he is going to be spending some minutes with the target then yeah, just put the lantern down and pick it up again when done.