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Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection.

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  • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
    Well, this bit was patently sensationalist nonsense: "the face and head [were] so swollen and distorted in consequence that her real features are not discernible".
    And they claimed that hampered her ID, but Mary Bousfield was able to recognise her from the photo. So their claims are demonstrably false.

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    • Originally posted by Batman View Post
      https://imgur.com/a/AZITOvm

      Try passing that photo off with a pathologist for non-strangulation and I think you'll get a different opinion.
      Was Nichols strangled? Was Stride? Was Eddowes? Was Kelly?

      If we're looking for patterns, they need to be consistent and unequivocal if we are to draw any sound inferences from them.
      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

      "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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      • Originally posted by Batman View Post
        Where is your comparative shot to her normal features then?
        Does a head 'swell' as a result of strangulation?

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        • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
          Does a head 'swell' as a result of strangulation?
          Yes. https://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-recanon.html
          Bona fide canonical and then some.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
            Was Nichols strangled? Was Stride? Was Eddowes? Was Kelly?

            If we're looking for patterns, they need to be consistent and unequivocal if we are to draw any sound inferences from them.
            Respecting Nichols, strong evidence supports asphyxia occurred. For bruises and abrasions along the jaw indicate, especially when circular in appearance, denote asphyxia. See Innes at page 96. Dr. Llewellyn testified at inquest, as reported in the Daily Telegraph, Monday, 3 September, 1888:

            On the right side of the face there is a bruise running along the lower part of the jaw. It might have been caused by a blow with the fist or pressure by the thumb. On the left side of the face there was a circular bruise, which also might have been done by the pressure of the fingers.

            The evidence concerning Chapman is clear as well. Dr. Phillips testified at inquest, as reported in the Daily Telegraph, Friday, 14 September, 1888:

            The face was swollen and turned on the right side, and the tongue protruded between the front teeth, but not beyond the lips; it was much swollen.


            https://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-recanon.html
            Bona fide canonical and then some.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
              Was Nichols strangled? Was Stride? Was Eddowes? Was Kelly?

              If we're looking for patterns, they need to be consistent and unequivocal if we are to draw any sound inferences from them.
              Tom believes Nichols may have been and he drags out Mr Reliable (Arthur Harding) to bolster his argument.

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              • Originally posted by Batman View Post
                Where is your comparative shot to her normal features then?
                I'm sure she looked like Kate Moss in reality. Seriously, though, it's obvious from her mortuary photograph that she would have been perfectly recognisable.

                And, as I intimated, the Illustrated Police News was not a reliable source at the best of times. It was practically the Late Victorian successor to the Newgate Calendar.
                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                  Does a head 'swell' as a result of strangulation?
                  It does if you get hit in the face with a frying pan:

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F2P5MF2BcM
                  Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                  "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                  Comment


                  • Conclusion:

                    Was Martha Tabram murdered by a soldier or soldiers? Was she a Ripper victim? The intelligent answer to both seems to be 'perhaps'.

                    And 'perhaps' has a twin brother: 'perhaps not'.

                    I couldn't agree more.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                      Conclusion:

                      Was Martha Tabram murdered by a soldier or soldiers? Was she a Ripper victim? The intelligent answer to both seems to be 'perhaps'.

                      And 'perhaps' has a twin brother: 'perhaps not'.

                      I couldn't agree more.
                      The thing is, Martha Tabram, was considered a JtR victim by several investigators throughout. It was Macnaghten who promoted the C5, but he came on the scene later and wasn't on the police force at the time. Anderson and Abberline seem to think Tabram the work of JtR. Walter Dew also.
                      Bona fide canonical and then some.

                      Comment


                      • Can I ask the people who doubt strangulation in Martha and the C5 how they think he was able to overcome the victims so quickly and silently?
                        No gunshots, sign of poisoning, stabbed through the heart, hit on the back of the head with a cosh etc. Without going through the notes not much sign of blood splatter if the throat was cut well still alive. To me, there is evidence of at least some asphyxiation in Martha, Polly, Annie and Liz. And with Kate and especially Mary with the extensive mutilation it is difficult to say. It is not a case of following a theory it is a case at looking at the facts. Prostitute murdered in the night with signs of strangulation and then being attacked brutally with a knife in the heart of a district where other similar murders occurred in time and place. The only other slightly credible theory is a soldier [or two]. And what evidence is there for that? A wound which may or may not have been caused by a bayonet, a soldier who was hanging around nearby who talked to a police officer [master criminal there] on a night when a lot of soldiers were given the night off [bank holiday], and a totally discredited witness in Pearly poll. On the balance of evidence I know which theory I prefer.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
                          Can I ask the people who doubt strangulation in Martha and the C5 how they think he was able to overcome the victims so quickly and silently?
                          Could I ask, respectfully, why anyone should think that Jack the Ripper was the only person capable of quickly and silently overcoming his victims?

                          If indeed they were dispatched silently. Just because nobody noticed or reported hearing anything doesn't mean that no sounds were made, and there's some evidence that at three victims - Chapman, Stride and Kelly - may have sounded their own death-knells. In either instance, the fact that sounds were heard might have something to do with the fact we had witnesses who were not only awake, but easily within earshot.
                          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                            there's some evidence that at three victims - Chapman, Stride and Kelly - may have sounded their own death-knells.
                            Gareth, are you admitting that Schwartz may have witnessed Stride being murdered ?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
                              Gareth, are you admitting that Schwartz may have witnessed Stride being murdered ?
                              On the face of it, I don't see why not.
                              Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                              "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
                                Can I ask the people who doubt strangulation in Martha and the C5 how they think he was able to overcome the victims so quickly and silently?
                                No gunshots, sign of poisoning, stabbed through the heart, hit on the back of the head with a cosh etc. Without going through the notes not much sign of blood splatter if the throat was cut well still alive. To me, there is evidence of at least some asphyxiation in Martha, Polly, Annie and Liz. And with Kate and especially Mary with the extensive mutilation it is difficult to say. It is not a case of following a theory it is a case at looking at the facts. Prostitute murdered in the night with signs of strangulation and then being attacked brutally with a knife in the heart of a district where other similar murders occurred in time and place. The only other slightly credible theory is a soldier [or two]. And what evidence is there for that? A wound which may or may not have been caused by a bayonet, a soldier who was hanging around nearby who talked to a police officer [master criminal there] on a night when a lot of soldiers were given the night off [bank holiday], and a totally discredited witness in Pearly poll. On the balance of evidence I know which theory I prefer.
                                There is more evidence of Martha having had a blow to the head than that she was strangled. From the the man who performed the autopsy on her vs that eminent scientific journal, the IPN. On the balance of evidence I would suggest she was subdued by being whacked on the head or having her head bashed against a wall or hard floor.

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