Antisemitism as a diversionary tactic

[MrBarnett]

For a while, a Jewish suspect was flavour of the month - until the Leather Apron debacle made the press and the police look somewhat foolish. Then, according to numerous reports, the 'slaughterman theory' was revived. Shortly after that came the double event with, it seems to me at least, it's attempt to refocus attention on a Jewish suspect.

[Sam Flynn]

Not a synagogue, Gareth, The Great Synagogue and a short distance from the Bevis Marks Sephardic Synagogue, the most historic Jewish place of worship in the country.

It's still a synagogue, and it was still a hundred metres around the corner from where Eddowes was found. Speaking of proximity, has anyone explored the possibility that the killer had a downer on Kearley and Tonge? The body was a fair bit closer to that building than it was to the synagogue.

[Batman]

For a while, a Jewish suspect was flavour of the month - until the Leather Apron debacle made the press and the police look somewhat foolish. Then, according to numerous reports, the 'slaughterman theory' was revived. Shortly after that came the double event with, it seems to me at least, it's attempt to refocus attention on a Jewish suspect.

Yeah, it is even chronologically explainable and fits like a glove.

1. Nichols is murdered. No prior Jewish Serial Killer connotations. Some association with gangs and therefore gentiles.
2. Leather Apron becomes a public Jewish suspect due to unfortunates complaining about him.
3. This is exploited to murder Chapman. People are looking for a Jew, not a gentile.
4. Follwing Chapman's murder, Leather Apron is exonerated by way of a PC witness, the best witness he could possibly have.
5. Therefore the Jewish association with JtR is no longer valid.
6. Strides is murdered next to a Jewish club with the anti-semitic remark LIPSKI shouted out during an attack on what looks to be Stride.
7. Eddowes is murdered next to the most significant synagogue in Mitre Sq.
8. Up the road her bloody apron piece is dumped with anti-semitic graffiti written above it (or at least graffiti sure to incite anti-Semitism associations with JtR, again.
9. Hutchenson sees a man who is dressed up to the nines and of Jewish appearance before MJK is murdered.
10. A bundle of clothes has been burned in Kelly's fire to the point that the spout on the kettle appears to have been melted off.

There is no problem being skeptical of an association, but the thing about skepticism is that the general criteria needs to be used through the entire case. If one requires forensic level evidence, then there is little they can accept about this case except what the doctors said about it and nobody else, lol.

[Sam Flynn]

For a while, a Jewish suspect was flavour of the month - until the Leather Apron debacle made the press and the police look somewhat foolish. Then, according to numerous reports, the 'slaughterman theory' was revived.

Yes, but that's other people suspecting "Johnny Foreigner", which is a very common thing to do. That's not the killer at work.

[Sam Flynn]

Yeah, it is even chronologically explainable and fits like a glove.

With enough bending and stretching, just about anything can be made to fit into a glove.

A bundle of clothes has been burned in Kelly's fire to the point that the spout on the kettle appears to have been melted off.

And I suppose that the spout of the kettle was meant to symbolise the stereotypical long nose of the Jew?

[MrBarnett]

Yeah, it is even chronologically explainable and fits like a glove.

1. Nichols is murdered. No prior Jewish Serial Killer connotations. Some association with gangs and therefore gentiles.
2. Leather Apron becomes a public Jewish suspect due to unfortunates complaining about him.
3. This is exploited to murder Chapman. People are looking for a Jew, not a gentile.
4. Follwing Chapman's murder, Leather Apron is exonerated by way of a PC witness, the best witness he could possibly have.
5. Therefore the Jewish association with JtR is no longer valid.
6. Strides is murdered next to a Jewish club with the anti-semitic remark LIPSKI shouted out during an attack on what looks to be Stride.
7. Eddowes is murdered next to the most significant synagogue in Mitre Sq.
8. Up the road her bloody apron piece is dumped with anti-semitic graffiti written above it (or at least graffiti sure to incite anti-Semitism associations with JtR, again.
9. Hutchenson sees a man who is dressed up to the nines and of Jewish appearance before MJK is murdered.
10. A bundle of clothes has been burned in Kelly's fire to the point that the spout on the kettle appears to have been melted off.

There is no problem being skeptical of an association, but the thing about skepticism is that the general criteria needs to be used through the entire case. If one requires forensic level evidence, then there is little they can accept about this case except what the doctors said about it and nobody else, lol.

Excellent, Batman, thank you!

What you've left out, though is the slaughterman aspect.

[Batman]

Red herrings

Yes, but that's other people suspecting "Johnny Foreigner", which is a very common thing to do. That's not the killer at work.

There is a whole history of criminology with perps making various attempts to throw off the police with red herrings and also to go along with a public perception in order to cover up who they actually are. This is because many of these serial killers are actively monitoring the investigation through the press.

Would you like examples?

[Sam Flynn]

What would these be? What would you class as irrefutable here exactly?

Anything but over-generalised speculation and unsubstantiated or incorrect assertions will suit me fine.

Am I only to also believe you only accept evidence that is irrefutable in general?

Why shouldn't we? This is the real world we're dealing with, not "Columbo by Numbers".

[MrBarnett]

It's still a synagogue, and it was still a hundred metres around the corner from where Eddowes was found. Speaking of proximity, has anyone explored the possibility that the killer had a downer on Kearley and Tonge? The body was a fair bit closer to that building than it was to the synagogue.

Was that area the most Warehousey in the country? Where the first ever warehouse was built and considered the centre of the warehousemen's world?

[Batman]

With enough bending and stretching, just about anything can be made to fit into a glove.And I suppose that the spout of the kettle was meant to symbolise the stereotypical long nose of the Jew?

Anything but over-generalised speculation and unsubstantiated or incorrect assertions will suit me fine.

I don't know what your criteria for evidence is, yet. Bending and stretching is subjective. What do you think would be irrefutable evidence for the anti-semitic association here exactly? Also am I only to also believe you only accept evidence that is irrefutable in general?

[Sam Flynn]

There is a whole history of criminology with perps making various attempts to throw off the police with red herrings and also to go along with a public perception in order to cover up who they actually are.

Maybe so, but there is absolutely zero evidence that an "antisemtism ploy" manifested itself on any night other than that of the Double Event, and even that can be disputed for a number of reasons.

[MrBarnett]

Yes, but that's other people suspecting "Johnny Foreigner", which is a very common thing to do. That's not the killer at work.

Indeed, but if you were the killer and you were a slaughterman, you might have been a little concerned when Johnny Foreigner was let off the hook and your group was put back on it. You might think to yourself 'How can I (we) get the focus back on old JF?'

[Batman]

Maybe so, but there is absolutely zero evidence that an "antisemtism ploy" manifested itself on any night other than that of the Double Event, and even that can be disputed for a number of reasons.

I think you don't have any actual objective criteria to accept or reject evidence. It sounds to me like you are subjectively deciding what to accept or not based on how you feel about something.

I am thinking this is because the global skepticism and evidence requirements to say that there is no connection here, will be dropped by yourself at other times, concerning other evidence.

Because if I held your position, I would not even be able to make an inference or a deduction. Coincidences would be accepted all the time. Would you even go so far as to reject the medical evidence that linked the murders? Do you accept a serial killer was on the loose in Whitechapel in 1888?

[Sam Flynn]

I don't know what your criteria for evidence is, yet. Bending and stretching is subjective. What do you think would be irrefutable evidence for the anti-semitic association here exactly?

FACTS, that's all. What are the facts that support the idea that Jack himself might have been using an "antisemitism ploy" in respect of the Nichols, Chapman and Kelly murders?

We also need to bear in mind the facts in respect to the Stride and Eddowes murders, for that matter. Facts like the density and distribution of the Jewish population, the actual disposition of Eddowes' body in relation to the synagogue - those kinds of things.

Also am I only to also believe you only accept evidence that is irrefutable in general?

Why shouldn't we? Like I said, we're dealing with the real world, not "Columbo by Numbers".

[Batman]

Excellent, Batman, thank you!

What you've left out, though is the slaughterman aspect.

Yeah, that's the other one. It must have read to people at the time, especially after Chapman, that JtR was butchering women like he preparing Kosher foods by shechita. Jews certainly couldn't have missed that one.