JtR was Law Enforcement Hypothesis

[Batman]

Yeah true. I can't reference what I thought on this matter and could well be wrong.

Anyhow yeah the stuff people are writing here has me thinking about possible angles.

I never really thought that not leaving Mitre Sq. could explain the missing 40 minutes. Meaning no bolthole. If JtR is LE he could be there all along.

[jerryd]

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04...1396540154.jpg

Are you sure all these are after 1930? I think the ones with the lens mounted outside the housing at the front might be the 1930s but I think the ones behind it are earlier.

Maybe I am confusing everything with what Police had in the World's Columbian Exposition of 1893 when H.H.Holmes was active.

If it's 1930 as you say then obviously they can't have had battery power lamps.

As far as Police issue, I'm fairly certain. Mervyn Mitton has a book called "The Policeman's Lot" and in it he states:

“These oil lamps throw out a considerable amount of heat and during the cold winter patrols must have been a source of some comfort to the old policemen!”

These lanterns were standard issue and in use from the late 1820’s up until the 1930’s when they were replaced with battery powered electric torches."


Monty would probably know best, but I really don't think battery powered torches were in use in 1888/1889. Sorry to belabor the point. I am certainly interested in the discussion of LE possibilities and your hypothesis.

[Batman]

The police standard issue in 1888 was a bullseye. Watkins says he had his in use that night. Battery lamps weren’t used by the police until the 1930’s.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2014/post-1801-0-91586700-1396540154.jpg

Are you sure all these are after 1930? I think the ones with the lens mounted outside the housing at the front might be the 1930s but I think the ones behind it are earlier.

Maybe I am confusing everything with what Police had in the World's Columbian Exposition of 1893 when H.H.Holmes was active.

If it's 1930 as you say then obviously they can't have had battery power lamps.

[jerryd]

I always thought it was a bullseye also but I seem to remember reading that because of the Ripper crimes, constables were issues with early types of battery powered lanterns that weighed a lot because of the size of the battery in it.

In the 1880s dry cell batteries were around and in 1887 they had made them safer and portable, a year before the murders.

I don't have a reference for this which I thought would be much easier to find.

Maybe I am getting old and confusing cases, or possibly it was after Kelly had been murdered this happened but I seem to remember reading on these forums that around the time PCs were issued with rubber soles they were also issued new lights.

The police standard issue in 1888 was a bullseye. Watkins says he had his in use that night. Battery lamps weren’t used by the police until the 1930’s.

[Batman]

Sorry Batman but I have no idea what you are trying to say? The police were using a bullseye lantern in those days. What reference are you using for a big brick of a thing in a box?

I always thought it was a bullseye also but I seem to remember reading that because of the Ripper crimes, constables were issues with early types of battery powered lanterns that weighed a lot because of the size of the battery in it.

In the 1880s dry cell batteries were around and in 1887 they had made them safer and portable, a year before the murders.

I don't have a reference for this which I thought would be much easier to find.

Maybe I am getting old and confusing cases, or possibly it was after Kelly had been murdered this happened but I seem to remember reading on these forums that around the time PCs were issued with rubber soles they were also issued new lights.

[jerryd]

They had the first battery lamps. A big brick of a thing in a box.

Sorry Batman but I have no idea what you are trying to say? The police were using a bullseye lantern in those days. What reference are you using for a big brick of a thing in a box?

[Batman]

All of JtR victims involve posing to shock who finds them. Even Stride. Kelly's left hand was placed into her mutilated cavity. Her face turned towards the room and not the wall. He brings their legs up into a sexual position. All this to degrade the woman and assault the senses of Whitechapel society which JtR has a deep hatred also for.

[Batman]

A battery operated lamp? I’m pretty sure they were oil/fire powered bullseye lanterns.

They had the first battery lamps. A big brick of a thing in a box.

[Wickerman]

Not that I recall, either. The rain and wet was mentioned in Stride and McKenzie, though. The only mention I seem to recall in Eddowes case was Lawende and crew. It must have been heavy as he said they Could not leave the club due to the rain. No mention by any of the authorities involved of wet cobblestones or clothes. No mention by the beat cops of a delay or rain hinderance of any kind. Seems strange to me. I also think the mention of Kate being found with palms up is peculiar. Either set that way by the killer or staged by someone. Hard to fall to the ground with palms up.

Yes I remember the rain issue in the Stride case, but not with Eddowes.
I suppose it could be argued that her clothes were not wet because the piece of apron found in Goulston St. was dry, only the corner being wet (with rain or blood?). Therefore, indirectly implying her clothes must also have been dry.
Eddowes only wore a jacket on top so the apron from her hips to her feet had to be exposed to the elements.
So why was it dry?
(I think I hear Trevor licking his lips at that)

If she attempted to break her fall her palms would be down, but only if she was conscious.
Being found with the palms up has always suggested to me that she lost consciousness while on her feet. It's more natural to lay down with palms up if you have no resistance.

[jerryd]

Hi Jerry.

You might be right about Watkins, it's human nature I guess.
I don't recall, but did anyone say her clothes were not wet?

Not that I recall, either. The rain and wet was mentioned in Stride and McKenzie, though. The only mention I seem to recall in Eddowes case was Lawende and crew. It must have been heavy as he said they Could not leave the club due to the rain. No mention by any of the authorities involved of wet cobblestones or clothes. No mention by the beat cops of a delay or rain hinderance of any kind. Seems strange to me. I also think the mention of Kate being found with palms up is peculiar. Either set that way by the killer or staged by someone. Hard to fall to the ground with palms up.

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon

Hi Jon.

There’s a good chance Watkins never checked that corner at 1:30 due to the heavy rain occuring at that time. He was likely taking cover, somewhere. Which leads to the questions, where did the couple appear from and why were Kates clothes not wet?

My guess on Watkins is he was sheltering with Morris and exited after the rain down St James Passage to catch up on his beat. That leaves the crime scene vacant for even a longer period of time.

Hi Jerry.

You might be right about Watkins, it's human nature I guess.
I don't recall, but did anyone say her clothes were not wet?

[jerryd]

Thats it, my take is he had 14 minutes.
Many of these unfortunates wore dark clothes, and as Lawende was not expected to remember what one particular woman wore as he passed her when leaving the club, his "similar" was naturally the best he could do.

Hi Jon

Hi Jon.

There’s a good chance Watkins never checked that corner at 1:30 due to the heavy rain occuring at that time. He was likely taking cover, somewhere. Which leads to the questions, where did the couple appear from and why were Kates clothes not wet?

My guess on Watkins is he was sheltering with Morris and exited after the rain down St James Passage to catch up on his beat. That leaves the crime scene vacant for even a longer period of time.

[jerryd]

People were cutting through gardens and sometimes just going through someone's unlocked front door and out the back ending up in a Chapman type garden with a fence or two to hop before you are on the other side of nowhere.

Inspector Moore ran tests like this in Whitechapel locking down an area only for scores of people to show up in a cordoned-off area. They took well-known shortcuts that even LE on the beat knew nothing about.

The only source of light would be a PC with a battery operated lamp.

A battery operated lamp? I’m pretty sure they were oil/fire powered bullseye lanterns.

[Batman]

Hide where? The only open door in the Square was to Kearley and Tonge's warehouse. Within minutes of the body's discovery there were policemen in the Square. It would have been impossible for the Ripper to remain outside unseen.

People were cutting through gardens and sometimes just going through someone's unlocked front door and out the back ending up in a Chapman type garden with a fence or two to hop before you are on the other side of nowhere.

Inspector Moore ran tests like this in Whitechapel locking down an area only for scores of people to show up in a cordoned-off area. They took well-known shortcuts that even LE on the beat knew nothing about.

The only source of light would be a PC with a battery operated lamp.

[Wickerman]

The tipsy or staggering demeanor may have been the effects of coming out of an epileptic seizure.

A man seen running along Hanbury street about 6:00am the morning of the murder.

"He was hurrying from Hanbury-street, below where the murder took place, into Brick-lane. He was walking, almost running, and had a peculiar gait, his knees not bending when he walked......... He was dressed in a dark stiff hat and cutaway coat, reaching to his knees. His face was clean shaven, and he seemed about 30 years old."

Remember the man who accosted Lewis & Kennedy in Bethnal Green Rd?
The same one outside the Britannia on Friday morning, Nov. 9th.

"Further, it was stated that he was a man of medium stature, with dark moustache, and that he had an extremely awkward gait, which could at once be recognised."

Maybe BS-man wasn't drunk at all, just an extremely awkward gait?