JtR was Law Enforcement Hypothesis

[Batman]

How did JtR manage it?

1. Constrained in a small 9^2 km area.
2. Avoids PCs on the beat. Avoids increased numbers after Chapman. Avoids overdrive operations after Eddowes.
3. Avoids plainclothes detectives and officers.
4. Avoids stakeouts on the streets from within buildings looking out windows.
5. Avoids baiting him.
6. Could somehow work in total darkness without a lamp?
7. Can last an evening walking around for a 40 min with maybe a bag or parcel of human organs without being stopped and searched?
8. Is not seen by witnesses and isn't mobbed down?
9. Totally avoids Lusk's vigilante group.
10. Silent and vanishes into the night?

How could he not have inside knowledge?

[Wickerman]

The length of Goulston Street from end to end is approximately 280 yards. The distance from its junction with Wentworth Street and the archway where the apron piece was found is approximately 70 yards. But of course that is the max distance, and for that both officers would have to be at each end of the street. The nearer they were to each other the more chance of seeing, or making contact with each other.

I fail to see how at that time of the morning neither officer saw or heard anything of each other, or did they?

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

The beat constable knows where he is on his beat every day, he must be at the same spot to keep on schedule. As this was Long's first day on that route he would have been told where to be at certain times. He knows the routine, he just has to adapt to a different route, and he had been on this route for about 4 hours.
So, if he knows he was in Goulston street at 2:20, because his schedule required it, then we should take that as reliable.

On the other hand, Halse is conducting a search of every street and he came up Middlesex, into Wentworth and it seems he entered Goulston street from the top end. But he is not on a schedule, so the time he was in each of those streets must be an estimate.

Obviously, I don't know what the procedure is, but would he really check his watch every time he enters another street and write the time down?
Or, is he expected to remember the time he entered every street he ran through on that night?

Halse says, "I came through Goulston street at/about 20 minutes past 2".

Why did he pick 2:20 as a time?, he could just as easily said, "I might have passed through Goulston street about that time", which would be more likely, as opposed to choosing that precise time - 2:20.

Long is on a schedule, Halse is just rushing through the backstreets. If we have to pick the more reliable time it must be PC Long.

[Trevor Marriott]

Goulston street is a long street, it is quite easy for one person to be leaving the top end while another is coming up from the bottom, or vice versa.

The length of Goulston Street from end to end is approximately 280 yards. The distance from its junction with Wentworth Street and the archway where the apron piece was found is approximately 70 yards. But of course that is the max distance, and for that both officers would have to be at each end of the street. The nearer they were to each other the more chance of seeing, or making contact with each other.

I fail to see how at that time of the morning neither officer saw or heard anything of each other, or did they?

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Wickerman]

Goulston street is a long street, it is quite easy for one person to be leaving the top end while another is coming up from the bottom, or vice versa.

[Batman]

Also in addition my question above...

At 2.20 a.m PC Alfred Long, noticed nothing along Goulston St.

DC Halse said he also arrived on Goulston St. at 2.20 a.m and saw nothing.

However, neither of them seem to have indicated they saw each other.

Despite being there at the same time roughly.

Otherwise Halse would have told Long about the murder.

Long claims he didn't know about it.

Halse was the first to alert the others in the morgue about Eddowes missing apron piece.

Halse was on Goulston St., twice that evening. He went there again when he learned what Long had found.

He argued to have to GSG photographed or only the top line rubbed out.

[Batman]

Question about Dorset St,. PC beats

If Dorset St., was such a well-known area for unfortunates, how was JtR about to get in and out without an officer seeing him?

Was MJK seen by officers on the beat?

Wouldn't there have been lots of plainclothes stakeouts there?

[Batman]

Hi Batman
Interesting idea, but if that were the case we would have never heard of Koz in the first place. they would have never mentioned him at all, especially if they were trying to keep it secret that the suspect was a cop.
and what cop was jewish?

I think the 'Jewish' thing would have to be a lie, hence why Swanson and Anderson would have to be in on it, or at least one of them.

However, Kozminski is Jewish.

The thing is we never heard of Kozminski and they did try to keep it quiet. It all started to surface when Martin Fido did some background checking in 1987.

Anderson had written in his memoirs that his suspect was a Jew. 1910

Macnaughton privately had written that the suspect was named Kozminski. This was revealed in 1959.

I believe Swanson's Marginalia was revealed around the same Time Fido was writing his book.

Oh yeah and Swanson even said he was dead when he wasn't.

[Abby Normal]

Wouldn't it be a turn of events if Kozminski, after showing up in the door to door searches, made the outrageous claim he had seen the ripper? That he was out one-night gutter lurking and happened to see the ripper commit a crime or see him with Eddowes or something? Is it possible that he said this man was a PC or even an undercover officer? Would he have been believed at the time or not? Probably not and sent to an insane asylum regardless because of his deterioration.

Later on, was he being brought to a PC retirement home in Brighton, not to be examined by a witness, but as a witness? Did he identify the ripper as a PC there and investigators figured out hey had made a big mistake all those years back?

It would require Swanson and Anderson to be lying their heads off though and a few others.

It would also mean that he wouldn't have said anything to his family about witnessing something.

Anyway, just food for thought.

Hi Batman
Interesting idea, but if that were the case we would have never heard of Koz in the first place. they would have never mentioned him at all, especially if they were trying to keep it secret that the suspect was a cop.
and what cop was jewish?

[Batman]

Is Kozminski actually a witness?

Wouldn't it be a turn of events if Kozminski, after showing up in the door to door searches, made the outrageous claim he had seen the ripper? That he was out one-night gutter lurking and happened to see the ripper commit a crime or see him with Eddowes or something? Is it possible that he said this man was a PC or even an undercover officer? Would he have been believed at the time or not? Probably not and sent to an insane asylum regardless because of his deterioration.

Later on, was he being brought to a PC retirement home in Brighton, not to be examined by a witness, but as a witness? Did he identify the ripper as a PC there and investigators figured out hey had made a big mistake all those years back?

It would require Swanson and Anderson to be lying their heads off though and a few others.

It would also mean that he wouldn't have said anything to his family about witnessing something.

Anyway, just food for thought.

[Batman]

Paul Begg asks if MJK could have been interviewed by police BEFORE she was murdered.

19. The Daily Telegraph later reported that enquiries were made at 6 Dorset Street, and it was discovered that nobody named Jane Kelly lived there. The irony is that the next victim was a young woman who lived at 26 Dorset Street who was named Mary Jane Kelly. One wonders whether anyone would have directed the attention of the police to Mary Jane Kelly, who may have established that she was alive and may even have questioned her. Interestingly, a woman named Mary Price, who lived at 36 Flower and Dean Street, having seen the body, was of opinion that the woman was a certain Jane Kelly; but it’s possible that she may have read about the pawn tickets in the newspaper. It was also reported that on the afternoon of 1 October two women said they were sure that Eddowes was a woman known as Annie who lived at a shop in a court near to Dorset Street. Mary Jane Kelly lived down a court next to a shop in Dorset Street. See Daily Telegraph, 2 October 1888.

Begg, *Paul. Jack the Ripper: The Facts (Kindle Locations 9286-9293). Pavilion Books. Kindle Edition.

[Batman]

Mary Ann Cox and PCs.

[Coroner] From what house did he go ? - I don't know.

[Coroner] Did you hear the door bang after him ? - No.

[Coroner] Then he must have walked up the court and back again? - Yes.

[Coroner] It might have been a policeman ? - It might have been.

So do we have the possibility here of a PC being in Miller's Court at the time of the murder?

Hutchinson claims he never saw a PC in all his time there. Why not? Was it because a PC didn't want to be seen by him and waited for him to leave first?

[Batman]

Do we have an ex bovver-boy in our midst?

Nah, just winding dirt road hills I needed to conquer coming home from school.

As for bovver-boy, I wouldn't put it past JtR to have been a bit like that.

[Wickerman]

Dr. Martens are the business. I have gone through about four pairs of those in twenty years. The only reason I have to throw them out is because of multiple deep scuff marks that develop over time but I bet a good cobbler could fix that.

Thanks for the update on custom PC clothing

Do we have an ex bovver-boy in our midst?

[Batman]

Dr. Martens are the business. I have gone through about four pairs of those in twenty years. The only reason I have to throw them out is because of multiple deep scuff marks that develop over time but I bet a good cobbler could fix that.

Thanks for the update on custom PC clothing

[Monty]

So it looks like this was just a suggestion made by the public but there is no evidence they adopted it?

The Constables may have adapted their own kit independently. That was, and still is, a common practice.

They also purchased more comfortable kit, in hopes their superiors wouldn’t find out. For example, in the 1970s a lot of beat Bobbies bought Dr Maretens boots, as they were more comfortable that issue. However, due to the image of these boots being connected to far right organisations, the practice was banned. To hide these boots, Bobbies would cut the famous heel tags off, and run over the yellow stitching with black marker pens.

So whilst not standard issue, it wouldn’t surprise me if some constables who suffered with their feet (the most common medical complaint for PCs to report) purchased rubber soled boots. However, I’d say it’s more a comfort thing than stealth.

Monty
🙂