JtR was Law Enforcement Hypothesis

[Batman]

The police standard issue in 1888 was a bullseye. Watkins says he had his in use that night. Battery lamps weren’t used by the police until the 1930’s.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2014/post-1801-0-91586700-1396540154.jpg

Are you sure all these are after 1930? I think the ones with the lens mounted outside the housing at the front might be the 1930s but I think the ones behind it are earlier.

Maybe I am confusing everything with what Police had in the World's Columbian Exposition of 1893 when H.H.Holmes was active.

If it's 1930 as you say then obviously they can't have had battery power lamps.

[jerryd]

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04...1396540154.jpg

Are you sure all these are after 1930? I think the ones with the lens mounted outside the housing at the front might be the 1930s but I think the ones behind it are earlier.

Maybe I am confusing everything with what Police had in the World's Columbian Exposition of 1893 when H.H.Holmes was active.

If it's 1930 as you say then obviously they can't have had battery power lamps.

As far as Police issue, I'm fairly certain. Mervyn Mitton has a book called "The Policeman's Lot" and in it he states:

“These oil lamps throw out a considerable amount of heat and during the cold winter patrols must have been a source of some comfort to the old policemen!”

These lanterns were standard issue and in use from the late 1820’s up until the 1930’s when they were replaced with battery powered electric torches."


Monty would probably know best, but I really don't think battery powered torches were in use in 1888/1889. Sorry to belabor the point. I am certainly interested in the discussion of LE possibilities and your hypothesis.

[Batman]

Yeah true. I can't reference what I thought on this matter and could well be wrong.

Anyhow yeah the stuff people are writing here has me thinking about possible angles.

I never really thought that not leaving Mitre Sq. could explain the missing 40 minutes. Meaning no bolthole. If JtR is LE he could be there all along.

[Batman]

A man seen running along Hanbury street about 6:00am the morning of the murder.

"He was hurrying from Hanbury-street, below where the murder took place, into Brick-lane. He was walking, almost running, and had a peculiar gait, his knees not bending when he walked......... He was dressed in a dark stiff hat and cutaway coat, reaching to his knees. His face was clean shaven, and he seemed about 30 years old."

Remember the man who accosted Lewis & Kennedy in Bethnal Green Rd?
The same one outside the Britannia on Friday morning, Nov. 9th.

"Further, it was stated that he was a man of medium stature, with dark moustache, and that he had an extremely awkward gait, which could at once be recognised."

Maybe BS-man wasn't drunk at all, just an extremely awkward gait?

Blotchy faces and awkward walking can be associated with conditions resulting from sexually transmitted diseases like syphilis. I believe they were on some pretty crazy drugs for it back then like mercury or something. Could explain why JtR was mad as a hatter.

[Wickerman]

Blotchy faces and awkward walking can be associated with conditions resulting from sexually transmitted diseases like syphilis. I believe they were on some pretty crazy drugs for it back then like mercury or something. Could explain why JtR was mad as a hatter.

The same character with the awkward gait was described as having a weird look about his eyes, an "unnatural glare".
A young man seen by Bowyer speaking to Kelly on Wednesday evening had "very peculiar eyes".
At the Bricklayers Arms, talking with Stride, a man who "had rather weak eyes. I mean he had sore eyes without any eyelashes".

So, it's not only the peculiar gait, but "peculiar eyes".

Was it the same man?

[Scott Nelson]

People were cutting through gardens and sometimes just going through someone's unlocked front door and out the back ending up in a Chapman type garden with a fence or two to hop before you are on the other side of nowhere.

But I thought your premise was that the Ripper stayed in Mitre Sq. after the murder. Did he leave and later return when it was full of policemen? If so, how did he get back in?

And what's "LE" stand for?

[Batman]

But I thought your premise was that the Ripper stayed in Mitre Sq. after the murder. Did he leave and later return when it was full of policemen? If so, how did he get back in?

And what's "LE" stand for?

LE means law.enforcement.

I was wondering where he went for 40 min. I suppose he may never have left might explain it.

Waited for a crowd to show.

[jerryd]

The same character with the awkward gait was described as having a weird look about his eyes, an "unnatural glare".
A young man seen by Bowyer speaking to Kelly on Wednesday evening had "very peculiar eyes".
At the Bricklayers Arms, talking with Stride, a man who "had rather weak eyes. I mean he had sore eyes without any eyelashes".

So, it's not only the peculiar gait, but "peculiar eyes".

Was it the same man?

I’ve had the same thought, Jon. Same guy. Then add the man with the black bag and white overalls seen by the dairyman on Little Turner Street, Old Bow Street and Cambridge Heath. One description has him walking with a “stiff knee” (Thomas Ede sighting from Nicholls inquest).He was said to have assaulted a woman on September 1st near the theatre on Cambridge Heath Road. All three descriptions of him sound like the same man. IIRC, Packer was involved in one sighting of this same guy.

[Monty]

Bullseye lamps were standard issue until the 1920s, when the battery lamps kindly shown by Batman were used.

I’ve a P.O. from 1888 which gives a daily timetable of when the Mets lamp man would visit the various stations to give them the once over, conduct any repairs and refill them. If memory serves, it was something like 7am till 9:30am for H division. It’s in my book...I really must read it one day.

Monty
😉

[Batman]

Bullseye lamps were standard issue until the 1920s, when the battery lamps kindly shown by Batman were used.

I’ve a P.O. from 1888 which gives a daily timetable of when the Mets lamp man would visit the various stations to give them the once over, conduct any repairs and refill them. If memory serves, it was something like 7am till 9:30am for H division. It’s in my book...I really must read it one day.

Monty
😉

Thanks Monty. You sorted that out.

[Pcdunn]

What does this scenario suggest to you?
What was happening?

Searching for a knife or blood droplets by deliberately "crossing and recrossing the street" is my first thought. So maybe a plain-clothes detective, hence the "respectable citizen" comment?

I think, however, that the mention of the "blotchy faced man with the carroty mousthace" ( in the next paragraph of the news article about the Stepney clerk's report) is about another man in a different location, and not a description of the above-mentioned respectable citizen.

[Wickerman]

Searching for a knife or blood droplets by deliberately "crossing and recrossing the street" is my first thought. So maybe a plain-clothes detective, hence the "respectable citizen" comment?

I think, however, that the mention of the "blotchy faced man with the carroty mousthace" ( in the next paragraph of the news article about the Stepney clerk's report) is about another man in a different location, and not a description of the above-mentioned respectable citizen.

Hi Pat.

I'm not following you here, the mention of a blotchy faced man, and him crossing the street back and forth, is all part of the same paragraph.
Would you mind pointing out where you see a divide?

A SUSPECTED INDIVIDUAL

"Mr. Galloway, a clerk employed in the C**** and living at Stepney, has made the following statement: "As I was going down the Whitechapel-road in the early hours of Wednesday morning, on my way home, I saw a man coming in the opposite direction, about fifty yards away. We both crossed the road simultaneously, and came face to face. The man had a very frightened appearance, and glared at me as he passed. I was very much struck with his appearance, especially as he corresponded, in almost every particular, with the man described by Mary Ann Cox. He was short, stout, about 35 to 40 years of age. His moustache, not a particular heavy one, was of a carroty colour, and his face was blotchy through drink and dissipation. He wore a long, dirty, brown overcoat, and altogether presented a most villainous Appearance. I stood still and watched him. He darted back almost immediately to the other side of the road, and then, apparently to avoid a group of women a little further on, crossed the road again. I determined to follow him, and just before reaching the coffee-stall past the church he again crossed the road. On nearing George-yard he crossed over and entered a small court. He reappeared in a couple of minutes, crossed Whitechapel-road for the sixth time, and preceeded up Commercial-street. Up to this point he had walked along briskly, but directly he got into Commercial-street he slackened speed and accosted the first woman whom he met alone, but was repulsed. On approaching Thrawl-street, a policeman on point duty suddenly appeared. The man was evidently startled, and for a moment it looked as though he would turn back or cross the road. He recovered himself, however, and went on. I then informed the constable of what I had seen, and pointed out the man's extraordinary resemblance to the individual described by Cox. The constable declined to arrest the man, saying that he was looking for a man of a very different appearance."

https://www.casebook.org/press_reports/evening_news/18881116.html?printer=true

[Batman]

It is interesting how in one version the PC said the man was working with him and was in good standing with the community and in this one wants nothing to do with him.

[Wickerman]

There was more than one version of that account, here is one with an extra paragraph at the end....



It seems the London papers edited the account down.

[Batman]

Mary Ann Cox

[Coroner] Did his boots sound as if the heels were heavy ? - There was no sound as he went up the court.

[Coroner] Then you think that his boots were down at heels ? - He made no noise.

I think its very interesting that here is an example of what we would expect JtR to sound like. Silent.

Reminds me of those special issue rubber soles that PCs had.