JtR was Law Enforcement Hypothesis

[Joshua Rogan]

According to the Star 5th Sept,

"One woman whom he [Leather Apron] assailed some time ago boldly prosecuted him for it, and he was sent up for seven days."

Is there any record of this happening to Piser?

[MrBarnett]

Hi Jerry, and thanks Seems I still have some fish to fry, questions I need better answers for.

This was also the weekend of the Post Office Robbery which I believe netted the culprits around 1500L, as well as some stamps as I recall. It just seems very unusual, without anyone having any real strong opinion about where "the killer" lodged, at least not at Superior ranks..., without any real cause to suspect imminent Ripper activity in the City, without any prior knowledge that a robbery was happening near Mitre Square, without any reason to be on extra alert...that 3 detectives were searching alleys after midnight.

Of all the documents we can look at today, it appears any real interest in where the killer might have lodged rested within the theory of his being Jewish, and the enclaves within the East End that harboured, in high percentage, populations of Jewish immigrants. Thats not the City.

I dont see any real reason why there would be any heightened sense of urgency about impending activity in the City on that night, unless perhaps the records that covered those areas and time period have never come to light.

Hi Michael,

The eastern edge of the City was very much a Jewish area. Bevis Marks, Houndsditch, Aldgate High Street and one side of Middlesex Street (Petticoat Lane) were all in the City.

According to the press, after the Pizer debacle the 'slaughterman theory' returned to favour, and the City's slaughterhouses were predominantly in that same area.

So if the City police wanted to concentrate their manpower in the part of their jurisdiction that had the highest Jewish population and the greatest number of slaughterhouses, I'd imagine that's exactly where they would have done so.

Gary

[Batman]

Thanks to everybody who replied. In response to where I was all this time -- Reddit.com/r/earons doing stuff on the East Area Rapist/Original Night Stalker before he was caught. Happened to me with BTK also. Was doing stuff, on message boards about a case when a few months/year later it broke.

1. I would look for a PC who was maybe fired from the force for fraternising with prostitutes prior to the attacks and who was then looked at for maybe other reasons following the Mary Kelly murder.
2. I would also take another look at Anderson and the Swanson Marginalia again because it involves a Police Seaside Convalescent Home (probably Brighton). I suspect maybe there was an officer here who IDed the suspect claiming he saw JtR. I really wonder who this PC was!
3. JtR was aware of LE beats. Ever more so when it comes to Mitre Square.
4. I suspect he joined the local Ripper groups looking for JtR and did some recon of his targets this way.
5. I would look at Eddowes again who had just been in the drunk tank in a police station.
6. Inside LE knowledge about stake-outs could explain why he avoided all of them.

[Scott Nelson]

re: #2. Could James Hay actually be James Harvey?

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Michael,

The eastern edge of the City was very much a Jewish area. Bevis Marks, Houndsditch, Aldgate High Street and one side of Middlesex Street (Petticoat Lane) were all in the City.

According to the press, after the Pizer debacle the 'slaughterman theory' returned to favour, and the City's slaughterhouses were predominantly in that same area.

So if the City police wanted to concentrate their manpower in the part of their jurisdiction that had the highest Jewish population and the greatest number of slaughterhouses, I'd imagine that's exactly where they would have done so.

Gary

I get the association Gary, but I'm still of the belief that something other than heightened patrols around slaughterhouses caused 3 detectives to be out after midnight. Id also add that anyone in the city who may have caught wind of the earlier murder that night would have no reason to suspect any particular trade of that act. No "butchery" at all.

It just sticks in my craw that the people closest to Kate Eddowes murder were all either active or retired policemen. And that if one were of a mind to cordon off an area to ensure that anyone leaving that area would bump into the police, Mitre Square seems a great location to set that up. I'm not so sure it would be specifically to catch a "Ripper", but perhaps someone they had been following and fearful of. The Parnell Commission brought some bad folks into town too...the Ripper murders were just an "also ran" danger at that period in time, particularly to the City itself.

Maybe the police were considering that their chances of catching a killer might be much better just after a murder had happened.

[Bridewell]

re: #2. Could James Hay actually be James Harvey?

Hi, Scott. What's this an allusion to please? I seem to recall that Harvey was born in Sussex.

[Scott Nelson]

The April 1891 census shows that Hay was one of three policemen staying at the Brighton Seaside home. This would have been close to the time (allegedly) that Kosminski was identified.

[Michael W Richards]

The April 1891 census shows that Hay was one of three policemen staying at the Brighton Seaside home. This would have been close to the time (allegedly) that Kosminski was identified.

Interesting conjecture Scott, Ive always suspected that Harvey has more to his story. I wonder about Pearce in much the same way.

[SuspectZero]

I was shot down when I raised this as an "idea" a few months back, which is why I don't post much here anymore. Too many angry people will slam you for raising points that should be considered and don't hesitate to ridicule you over it..that being said - this guy could just as well have been Jack. Ex-police just before the killings got started. Florid (blotchy) complexion....arrested 2x on suspicion of being the ripper:
George Compton

[Abby Normal]

I was shot down when I raised this as an "idea" a few months back, which is why I don't post much here anymore. Too many angry people will slam you for raising points that should be considered and don't hesitate to ridicule you over it..that being said - this guy could just as well have been Jack. Ex-police just before the killings got started. Florid (blotchy) complexion....arrested 2x on suspicion of being the ripper:
George Compton

Nice fimd suspect.
Absolutely seems like this guy is suspicious. I didnt see were it said he had florid complextion though.
Anyone find anything else on george compton?

[RockySullivan]

The Complete and Essential Jack the Ripper
By Paul Begg, John Bennett


Edward Watkins was suspected by an anonymous correspondent from Trowbridge.

George Morris was also suspected as an ex-constable.

hi jerry what do you hear what do you say!
do you have any more info on these guys, especially watkins? what do you think of william thick as a suspect in light of some of the info in Tom's book?

If it the ripper was a cop, I would look for any officers who had connections to the earlier torso cases

[Bridewell]

Interesting conjecture Scott, Ive always suspected that Harvey has more to his story. I wonder about Pearce in much the same way.

Harvey was dismissed in 1889 (1st July), so would not have been a serving officer at the time of the 1891 census. Interestingly, while his personal file (in 2012) still contained documents which supported his appointment, those which (presumably) explained the reasons for his dismissal were not. The word "Dismissed" is written on the file cover in heavy pencil and underlined.

[Scott Nelson]

Yes, all that was addressed years ago. If Harvey was dismissed, would that devalue his worth as a later witness? Or maybe the Seaside Identification occurred in 1889?

[Bridewell]

Yes, all that was addressed years ago. If Harvey was dismissed, would that devalue his worth as a later witness? Or maybe the Seaside Identification occurred in 1889?

That's not the point I'm making, Scott, so apologies if I've clumsily given a contrary impression. I was merely pointing out that the James Hay who appears in the 1891 census at the Seaside Home is unlikely to be Pc James Harvey if the latter was dismissed almost 2 years previously. I'm certainly not disputing the contention that he could have been the Seaside Home witness; I've argued in favour of that possibility on a previous thread (hence my reference to his having been born in Sussex).

[spyglass]

Its an interesting question in particular with Kate Eddowes murder. Pearce, Harvey, Watkins, Marriot, Halse and Outram, Long, Morris...did I miss anyone?...were all within the vicinity of her murder at the time it happens. Its the only one of the "Canonical" murders that has a plethora of police near... at the time of the murder.

Hi,
Just something else regarding the Eddowes murder that I thought about some years back, if the GSG was written by the ripper, and the line referring to " blamed for nothing"
Well this is what she said was her name when originally taken in to Bishopsgate Police Station.....only the Police officers on duty would have known that.

Regards