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JtR was Law Enforcement Hypothesis

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  • Originally posted by Batman View Post
    So here is a hypothesis. L.63 dawned an astrakhan and some plainclothes over his uniform. Went away with MJK. Murdered her. Burnt his astrakhan and some plainclothes in her fire. Walked out in his uniform again.
    That's not so much an hypothesis as a script idea for a fictional TV series. I'd watch it, that's for sure, but I wouldn't buy it as a feasible representation of what would happen in the real world.
    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
      That's not so much an hypothesis as a script idea for a fictional TV series. I'd watch it, that's for sure, but I wouldn't buy it as a feasible representation of what would happen in the real world.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden...James_DeAngelo

      You need to do some catching up.

      It is interesting how cold cases (the ones we didn't catch) are starting to turn up law enforcement for the most prolific ones.

      Let's be clear what this police officer did while employed as a police officer.
      • Changed his MO not once but twice.
      • 100+ burglaries.
      • 50+ rapes.
      • 13 murders.


      We can't even estimate the amount of stalking he did, given his job.

      So what you say is TV, is actually a hard reality. The most unknown prolific serial killer and serial rapist in the US has been caught by familial DNA testing and he was cop. He was cop when he was burgling in Visilia. He was a cop when he murdered Snelling. He was a cop when he murdered Brian and Kate Maggiore. He was a cop when he raped 50 women, half of which had their husbands tied up in the room next to them. He wasn't a cop for the last series of murders because he had been fired and went to LA to change his MO.
      Bona fide canonical and then some.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Batman View Post
        If Hutchinson never saw a PC for the 45 min he was there, and the PC should have seen him twice, then either Hutchinson is lying... or that PC is now a candidate for murdering MJK when he should have been on the beat.

        Problems with this are that officer L.63 looks nothing like Hutchinson's JtR. (L.63 bottom of the first top cartoon, left of JtR's right leg).

        However, we don't know that this is how L.63 looked. It could be an artist concept. I can not find mention of his appearance at MJKs inquest hearing.

        So here is a hypothesis. L.63 dawned an astrakhan and some plainclothes over his uniform. Went away with MJK. Murdered her. Burnt his astrakhan and some plainclothes in her fire. Walked out in his uniform again.

        If L.63 was drafted in specially for this street at this time then I would say L.63 needs to be looked at more closely. The fact we don't know WHO he is, may speak to concerns the investigators had over him, especially since the worst homicide of the series occurred on his beat.
        Hi Batman
        thats quite a hypothesis!
        "Is all that we see or seem
        but a dream within a dream?"

        -Edgar Allan Poe


        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

        -Frederick G. Abberline

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Batman View Post
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden...James_DeAngelo

          You need to do some catching up.

          It is interesting how cold cases (the ones we didn't catch) are starting to turn up law enforcement for the most prolific ones.

          Let's be clear what this police officer did while employed as a police officer.
          • Changed his MO not once but twice.
          • 100+ burglaries.
          • 50+ rapes.
          • 13 murders.


          We can't even estimate the amount of stalking he did, given his job.

          So what you say is TV, is actually a hard reality. The most unknown prolific serial killer and serial rapist in the US has been caught by familial DNA testing and he was cop. He was cop when he was burgling in Visilia. He was a cop when he murdered Snelling. He was a cop when he murdered Brian and Kate Maggiore. He was a cop when he raped 50 women, half of which had their husbands tied up in the room next to them. He wasn't a cop for the last series of murders because he had been fired and went to LA to change his MO.
          You cannot compare modern day serial killers, and how they went about their crimes, to a serial killer from 1888, there are to many factors that rule out comparisons.

          www.trevormarriott.co.uk

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
            You cannot compare modern day serial killers, and how they went about their crimes, to a serial killer from 1888, there are to many factors that rule out comparisons.

            www.trevormarriott.co.uk
            I have never read anything remotely like that from the professional literature including published peer-reviewed papers that...
            1. Use modern forensic psychology and apply it to JtR.
            2. Also invoke JtR when discussing modern forensic psychology.


            https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jip.22

            One such paper by Keppel. Using modern databases applied to JtR.

            How about all the geoprofiles on Jtr?

            I don't think you can list a single factor that is a barrier to doing this. Nor do you have any professional journals supporting your position I suspect. Is it an opinion you made up? Did you make it up because someone on the force has let the side down badly? The idea SKs can't be cops is firmly relegated to fantasy given this serial killers profile. One of the most prolific. More importantly, the reasons why SKs can't be LE is firmly refuted.

            These following points are NO longer reasons to reject the possibility that an SK is a cop.

            Here are some of the reasons we had...

            1) No time to do it all.
            2) Can't travel from one end of the city to the other.
            3) LE had all checked out.
            4) Statistics.
            5) Would be easily recognized.

            They are firmly nonsense with the discovery that a cop, Officer Joe Deangelo, is the prolific serial killer and rapist, EARONS.

            Also at the moment, the Long Island Serial Killer is pointing towards it being an officer also.

            Does it really surprise you that many UNSUBS will turn out to have been LE all along? It shouldn't. It is a good explanation why they are UNSUBS and can go about being so prolific.
            Bona fide canonical and then some.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Batman View Post
              I have never read anything remotely like that from the professional literature including published peer-reviewed papers that...
              1. Use modern forensic psychology and apply it to JtR.
              2. Also invoke JtR when discussing modern forensic psychology.


              https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jip.22

              One such paper by Keppel. Using modern databases applied to JtR.

              How about all the geoprofiles on Jtr?

              I don't think you can list a single factor that is a barrier to doing this. Nor do you have any professional journals supporting your position I suspect. Is it an opinion you made up? Did you make it up because someone on the force has let the side down badly? The idea SKs can't be cops is firmly relegated to fantasy given this serial killers profile. One of the most prolific. More importantly, the reasons why SKs can't be LE is firmly refuted.

              These following points are NO longer reasons to reject the possibility that an SK is a cop.

              Here are some of the reasons we had...

              1) No time to do it all.
              2) Can't travel from one end of the city to the other.
              3) LE had all checked out.
              4) Statistics.
              5) Would be easily recognized.

              They are firmly nonsense with the discovery that a cop, Officer Joe Deangelo, is the prolific serial killer and rapist, EARONS.

              Also at the moment, the Long Island Serial Killer is pointing towards it being an officer also.

              Does it really surprise you that many UNSUBS will turn out to have been LE all along? It shouldn't. It is a good explanation why they are UNSUBS and can go about being so prolific.
              Are there any British police officer / serial killers that we are aware of ?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
                Are there any British police officer / serial killers that we are aware of ?
                Sure,

                Dennis Nilsen was a Jnr Constable in the MET. He quit before murdering though. There are probably more.
                Bona fide canonical and then some.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Batman View Post
                  Sure,

                  Dennis Nilsen was a Jnr Constable in the MET. He quit before murdering though. There are probably more.
                  Ok thanks. I was thinking that there was maybe a lot of US police / SKs because of the gun thing.
                  Last edited by Jon Guy; 10-11-2018, 08:33 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                    Hi Batman
                    thats quite a hypothesis!
                    I would never have thought about a police connection to JTR before and certainly after the whole royal conspiracy final solution thing, would have avoided the topic. However after Officer Joseph James Deangelo turned out to be EARONS, I have looked at the reasons why in past discussions the LE angle to EARONS was downplayed. Those reasons I have listed and they are no longer the barriers I thought they once were.

                    Things have changed about our understanding of these things so I think adapting to it is a good move because at least it's a progressive direction with stuff to do on it.
                    Bona fide canonical and then some.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
                      Ok thanks. I was thinking that there was maybe a lot of US police / SKs because of the gun thing.
                      There are not a lot of US serial killers that were cops. I can only think of recent GSK.

                      Although a lot of speculation that Zodiac was.


                      Its more likely they have a military background, which is similar though.
                      "Is all that we see or seem
                      but a dream within a dream?"

                      -Edgar Allan Poe


                      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                      -Frederick G. Abberline

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Batman View Post
                        I have never read anything remotely like that from the professional literature including published peer-reviewed papers that...
                        1. Use modern forensic psychology and apply it to JtR.
                        2. Also invoke JtR when discussing modern forensic psychology.


                        https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jip.22

                        One such paper by Keppel. Using modern databases applied to JtR.

                        How about all the geoprofiles on Jtr?

                        I don't think you can list a single factor that is a barrier to doing this. Nor do you have any professional journals supporting your position I suspect. Is it an opinion you made up? Did you make it up because someone on the force has let the side down badly? The idea SKs can't be cops is firmly relegated to fantasy given this serial killers profile. One of the most prolific. More importantly, the reasons why SKs can't be LE is firmly refuted.

                        These following points are NO longer reasons to reject the possibility that an SK is a cop.

                        Here are some of the reasons we had...

                        1) No time to do it all.
                        2) Can't travel from one end of the city to the other.
                        3) LE had all checked out.
                        4) Statistics.
                        5) Would be easily recognized.

                        They are firmly nonsense with the discovery that a cop, Officer Joe Deangelo, is the prolific serial killer and rapist, EARONS.

                        Also at the moment, the Long Island Serial Killer is pointing towards it being an officer also.

                        Does it really surprise you that many UNSUBS will turn out to have been LE all along? It shouldn't. It is a good explanation why they are UNSUBS and can go about being so prolific.
                        Hi Batman
                        agree-of course you can compare modern day serial killers to JTR-more words of wisdom from the master detective-LOL!

                        Re the LISK-hes already in jail for the murder of two prostitutes in an earlier case. theyre just trying to link definitvely. The LISK is John Bittrolff, a hunter from Manorville LI (not a cop).
                        "Is all that we see or seem
                        but a dream within a dream?"

                        -Edgar Allan Poe


                        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                        -Frederick G. Abberline

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Batman View Post
                          I would never have thought about a police connection to JTR before and certainly after the whole royal conspiracy final solution thing, would have avoided the topic. However after Officer Joseph James Deangelo turned out to be EARONS, I have looked at the reasons why in past discussions the LE angle to EARONS was downplayed. Those reasons I have listed and they are no longer the barriers I thought they once were.

                          Things have changed about our understanding of these things so I think adapting to it is a good move because at least it's a progressive direction with stuff to do on it.
                          I was thinking more specifically the idea of a cop dressing up like Aman!
                          (I have no problem with the general idea of the ripper being LE).

                          but come to think of it, an active cop like GSK, apparently foregoing his uniform and donning classic cat burgler apparrel (and all the totally cop unlike behavior that goes with it-stealing bikes to get away, peeping Tom etc.) actually dosnt make your idea that far out, come to think of it.


                          I don't know how many people I talked to after DeAngelo was caught just couldn't get their head around the descriptions and the behavior of the GSK with a cop.
                          Last edited by Abby Normal; 10-11-2018, 09:03 AM.
                          "Is all that we see or seem
                          but a dream within a dream?"

                          -Edgar Allan Poe


                          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                          -Frederick G. Abberline

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                            I was thinking more specifically the idea of a cop dressing up like Aman!
                            (I have no problem with the general idea of the ripper being LE).

                            but come to think of it, an active cop like GSK, apparently foregoing his uniform and donning classic cat burgler apparrel (and all the totally cop unlike behavior that goes with it-stealing bikes to get away, peeping Tom etc.) actually dosnt make your idea that far out, come to think of it.


                            I don't know how many people I talked to after DeAngelo was caught just couldn't get their head around the descriptions and the behavior of the GSK with a cop.
                            That is likely what he did sometimes. It explains why EAR was seen pantless wandering down the street. I think he had a uniform he could put on around the corner somewhere.

                            I also believe that after he was fired he may have gained entry using his uniform for the ONS crimes, some (most) of which lacked evidence for a break-in. I think he did this because he needed to be a cop to achieve his emotional satisfaction, which was basically to be a cop raping and murdering women. Since he was fired he couldn't do that. Anyway, that is just my speculation.

                            We strongly speculate JtR burned clothes in the fire in MJK's room. I am currently thinking Hutchinson's description of his man totally looking like a caricature, may well have been a deliberate caricature by the offender who burned up all that caricature stuff he was wearing for a reason and I don't think it was because of blood, but to get rid of his disguise. Why does he need a disguise? Well, it did look very Jewish. However, maybe he was disguised because his uniform would give him away.
                            Bona fide canonical and then some.

                            Comment


                            • https://forum.casebook.org/showpost....&postcount=102

                              It seems a focus on soldiers before law enforcement may be warranted. A soldier would also explain why JtR seemed experienced at being able to subdue his targets quickly and silently in public places next to homes at the dead of night.
                              Bona fide canonical and then some.

                              Comment


                              • Why did Reid drop interest in Barrett?

                                https://www.casebook.org/witnesses/p...s-barrett.html

                                Inspector Reid apparently lost all interest in P.C. Barrett as a witness, but a summary report written by Chief Inspector Donald Swanson in September 1888 (MEPO 3/140 ff. 36-42) includes a description of Barrett's soldier:

                                2am.7th.Augt. Police Constable 226H. Barrett saw a soldier - a grenadier age 22 to 26. height 5 ft 9 or 10. compl. fair, hair dark, small dark brown moustache turned up at ends. with one good conduct badge. no medals. in Wentworth Street; and in reply to the PC he stated he was waiting for a chum, who had gone with a girl.
                                Bona fide canonical and then some.

                                Comment

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