Same motive = same killer

[RockySullivan]

With the job proper done, the parts will not come up. And the floating power of the parts is shortlived. My contention is that most bodies that have been weighted dwon and dumped are never found.
But it is obvious that the torso killer did spread the parts a whole deal!

Where were the parts dumped from? How did the killer travel to the disposal points? It might have been difficult to weigh down the parts and dump them.

[Fisherman]

I was talking about body parts that were dumped in water.

The 1873 victim was dumped in 13 parts. 12 of them "happened" to be retrieved. The right foot only was missing. Of course the skull was missing too, but in that case, the face and scalp were retrieved.

He didn´t want the parts to disappear.

[Fisherman]

Where were the parts dumped from? How did the killer travel to the disposal points? It might have been difficult to weigh down the parts and dump them.

The plain and simple answer is that we do not know where they were dumped from, or how the killer got there. It would have represented some work to wrap the parts in cloth. If he could do that, he could also weigh them down, methinks.

[RockySullivan]

It seems like it could be difficult to find a place to dump a torso in London. Why did the killer choose the Whitehall vault and bury parts? I lean more towards he thought it would be save there for a time atleast or he was familiar with the vault than it was done for shock value because it's the new Scotland yard. I could be wrong in that case but how did the killer climb the fence and into the vault carrying the torso?

[Fisherman]

It seems like it could be difficult to find a place to dump a torso in London. Why did the killer choose the Whitehall vault and bury parts? I lean more towards he thought it would be save there for a time atleast or he was familiar with the vault than it was done for shock value because it's the new Scotland yard. I could be wrong in that case but how did the killer climb the fence and into the vault carrying the torso?

It would have meant considerable trouble and effort for him to get into the vaults of the house. That speak volumes about the underlying motivation on his behalf in my world.

[RockySullivan]

The plain and simple answer is that we do not know where they were dumped from, or how the killer got there. It would have represented some work to wrap the parts in cloth. If he could do that, he could also weigh them down, methinks.

Are you thinking it through thoroughly? How much weight was needed, what kind of weights, how heavy do they make the torso? Too heavy to get to the dump site? Less ambiguous than an old coat now there's a guy dumping a really heavy package! Maybe he didn't want the body parts to get weighted down right where he's dumping them? If the method he was using was working and the victims weren't unidentified than why weigh down the bodies? And after Jackson is identified we see a different disposal with the Pinchin torso

[Joshua Rogan]

Thanks Debs so the uterus does not extend above the 4th lumbar vertebra is that correct? Apparently I have always incorrectly been of the understanding that the uterus was removed from the Whitehall victim.

No, not unles several months pregnant. Which may, or may not, explain why Jackson's uterus was removed before her torso was divided.

[RockySullivan]

It would have meant considerable trouble and effort for him to get into the vaults of the house. That speak volumes about the underlying motivation on his behalf in my world.

Right and if the killer wanted a torso to be found why hide it deep in the vault and bury parts? I think it's more likely the killer was familiar with the dump site than he parts were put there as a **** you to Scotland Yard.

[Sam Flynn]

Why did the killer choose the Whitehall vault and bury parts? I lean more towards he thought it would be save there for a time at least or he was familiar with the vault

Very good point. Why would an East End killer have known of this obscure location? The vault hadn't long been there, after all.

[RockySullivan]

Very good point. Why would an East End killer have known of this obscure location? The vault hadn't long been there, after all.

I thought the vault was old but according to wikipedia it was only 3 months old? Is that correct/ I had assumed it was part of the foundation and the new building was just being built on top of it?

[Sam Flynn]

I thought the vault was old but according to wikipedia it was only 3 months old? Is that correct/ I had assumed it was part of the foundation and the new building was just being built on top of it?

It was certainly obscure, arguably implying some local knowledge as to its location, or even of its very existence.

[RockySullivan]

Some don't see this as relevant, I do.

Annie Chapman- murdered September 8th, 1888

Whitehall Torso- possibility murdered September 8th, 1888 (according to Dr. Neville)

Pinchin Torso- probably murdered September 8th, 1889

Jer, IF Chapman and Whitehall were killed on the same day by the same hand, Richardson's basement is the logical conclusion. It could explain the time discrepancies in the witness statements if there were 2 women murdered that night. Have you looked into Francis Tyler as having a connection to any of your Torso person/places of interest research?

[Joshua Rogan]

I thought the vault was old but according to wikipedia it was only 3 months old? Is that correct/ I had assumed it was part of the foundation and the new building was just being built on top of it?

The foundations were older - dug for an opera house that ran out of funding - but the particular vault where the torso was dumped had only been dug 3 months earlier.

[Joshua Rogan]

Jer, IF Chapman and Whitehall were killed on the same day by the same hand, Richardson's basement is the logical conclusion.

Or Mrs Hardiman's catfood shop!

[RockySullivan]

Joshua thanks, are you sure that is true and it's not just that vault was extended or worked on in the last 3 months? I can't even picture what the vaults look like or the layout of them at all