Same motive = same killer

[RockySullivan]

packing case makers?

[Jon Guy]

packing case makers?

Yes, Insp Chandler covered Annie Chapman`s body with some sacking until the doctor arrived.

I can`t remember if he found this in the yard of no. 29 or from Bayley`s yard, a couple of doors away.

[Jon Guy]

I can`t remember if he found this in the yard of no. 29 or from Bayley`s yard, a couple of doors away.

It was James Kent who went back to the workshop at Bailey`s (n. 23) to fetch some canvas with which to cover Chapmans`s body.

[Joshua Rogan]

Yes, Insp Chandler covered Annie Chapman`s body with some sacking until the doctor arrived.

I can`t remember if he found this in the yard of no. 29 or from Bayley`s yard, a couple of doors away.

In his testimony he says he "obtained some sacking from one of the neighbours to cover the body"

This was most likely James Kent, the packing case maker who was alerted to the body by Davis. His testimony says that he
"then had some brandy, and afterwards went to the shop and got a piece of canvas to throw over the body. When he returned a mob had assembled. The inspector had arrived, and was in possession of the yard"

Most likely, the "shop" referred to was his workshop in Bailey's Yard.


Edit: I see you've already checked, Jon!

[Jon Guy]

Edit: I see you've already checked, Jon!

Thanks anyway, JR, appreciated.

[RockySullivan]

Jon and Joshua thank you

[RockySullivan]

I'm reading the new Torso book Forgotten Ripper made up entirely of newspaper articles about the 87-89 torso cases. Someone on this thread suggested it. It's xcellent. The thing really standing out to me is the canvas and the cord

[jerryd]

I'm reading the new Torso book Forgotten Ripper made up entirely of newspaper articles about the 87-89 torso cases. Someone on this thread suggested it. It's xcellent. The thing really standing out to me is the canvas and the cord

It's interesting you mention the cord. Debs said it was thought to be sash cord. When I was researching J.T Chappel's timber company (the deal wharf where the Pimilco arm was found), I came across an ad for his company. In it they advertised sash windows and Debs picked up on that and the sash cord. Interesting thought.

[RockySullivan]

I do remember that jerry, do you think the killer's profession involved cord & canvas?

[jerryd]

I do remember that jerry, do you think the killer's profession involved cord & canvas?

Not sure Rocky. I think sash cord and canvas could have been available to anybody, no?

[RockySullivan]

Not sure Rocky. I think sash cord and canvas could have been available to anybody, no?

Perhaps but I think since the killer seems to always choose canvas and cord its possible he was comfortable with them because of his profession and might have them as part of his work supplies. He seems like he would use what was readily available to him or he would he purposefully choose canvas because he doesn't work with it? I vote he has it on hand, and I feel there is something peculiar about the tying. Perhaps the tying of the sash cord points to the killers work? who works tying sash cords?

[Robert St Devil]

It's interesting you mention the cord. Debs said it was thought to be sash cord. When I was researching J.T Chappel's timber company (the deal wharf where the Pimilco arm was found), I came across an ad for his company. In it they advertised sash windows and Debs picked up on that and the sash cord. Interesting thought.

Hi jerryd. I'm guessing that you've attempted a connection between the timber company and the construction site in your research, interested. Your post reminded me of the following:

Star, 12 Sep
Frederick Moore, of 86, Great Peter-street, Westminster, a deal porter employed at Ward's timber yard, states that it was he that first discovered the arm. With the assistance of a fellow workman he hoisted a ladder over the embankment on to the floating timber below, and thus reached the arm. He searched for other portions of the body in the water, but could not see anything else. Just above the place where the arm was found is a sluice coming out from the wall of the embankment, from which comes a stream of water from the distillery in Grosvenor-road. It is curious to note that two or three months ago this man Moore picked up the dead body of a child near the place where he found this arm

Star, 5 Oct
The site of the new police offices, where the National Opera House was to have been erected, faces the Embankment, and backs on Cannon-row. It is on the west side of the gardens of Whitehall and Buccleuch House, while on the western side of the site are the offices of the Civil Service Commission. Between this house and the site of the police offices is a temporary plank-made road for heavy carts, which deliver the material for building, entering from the Thames Embankment, and passing into Cannon-row, whence they emerge into Parliament-street or into Bridge-street, Westminster. The road by which the loaded carts enter is the nearest way to the *recess where the body was found. Brought in a cart, and carried as a load across the planks on to the building, its disposal would be easy in the recess.

*The recess where the body was found:
Star, 4 Oct
Towards the Thames front of the site there are some underground steps. These steps lead to a door at a lower depth. An inclined plane leads to a lower level. This lower level is a vast place of arches, from which the light is partially excluded by the walls for the floors above, and is in constant shade. In one place there is a deep recess, in which, even when the sun is shining brightly outside, there is complete darkness. This leads by a dangerous way to another recess. In one corner of this furthest dark recess stands a piece of hoarding, two pieces of board held together by a cross piece, as if it had formed once part of a builder's hoarding round the building. This stands crossways against the wall, leaving a triangular space. It was within this space that the parcel containing the body was found.

[my emphasis]

[jerryd]

Hi jerryd. I'm guessing that you've attempted a connection between the timber company and the construction site in your research, interested. Your post reminded me of the following:

Star, 12 Sep
Frederick Moore, of 86, Great Peter-street, Westminster, a deal porter employed at Ward's timber yard, states that it was he that first discovered the arm. With the assistance of a fellow workman he hoisted a ladder over the embankment on to the floating timber below, and thus reached the arm. He searched for other portions of the body in the water, but could not see anything else. Just above the place where the arm was found is a sluice coming out from the wall of the embankment, from which comes a stream of water from the distillery in Grosvenor-road. It is curious to note that two or three months ago this man Moore picked up the dead body of a child near the place where he found this arm

Star, 5 Oct
The site of the new police offices, where the National Opera House was to have been erected, faces the Embankment, and backs on Cannon-row. It is on the west side of the gardens of Whitehall and Buccleuch House, while on the western side of the site are the offices of the Civil Service Commission. Between this house and the site of the police offices is a temporary plank-made road for heavy carts, which deliver the material for building, entering from the Thames Embankment, and passing into Cannon-row, whence they emerge into Parliament-street or into Bridge-street, Westminster. The road by which the loaded carts enter is the nearest way to the *recess where the body was found. Brought in a cart, and carried as a load across the planks on to the building, its disposal would be easy in the recess.

*The recess where the body was found:
Star, 4 Oct
Towards the Thames front of the site there are some underground steps. These steps lead to a door at a lower depth. An inclined plane leads to a lower level. This lower level is a vast place of arches, from which the light is partially excluded by the walls for the floors above, and is in constant shade. In one place there is a deep recess, in which, even when the sun is shining brightly outside, there is complete darkness. This leads by a dangerous way to another recess. In one corner of this furthest dark recess stands a piece of hoarding, two pieces of board held together by a cross piece, as if it had formed once part of a builder's hoarding round the building. This stands crossways against the wall, leaving a triangular space. It was within this space that the parcel containing the body was found.

[my emphasis]

Hi RSD,

Yes, I looked into both Robert Ward and Sons and J.T. Chappel in regard to the supplying of goods for the new police building at Whitehall. J Grover & Son, who was the contractor awarded with building the site, had his own timber yards. I'm assuming he used his own timber to haul to the site. However, that doesn't neccesarily exclude the possibility Ward and/or Chappel were used as well. Chappel dealt in bricks, cutting stone and window manufacturing in addition, which may have been used. He had barges that traveled up and down the Thames from Battersea to possibly even near Rainham where his brick company was located in Benfleet.

Regarding the dead body of the child. I have scoured the papers and have come up empty for a report for that one. I also looked into the history of Frederick Moore a bit too. He was a deal porter working for Ward & Sons and could possibly have carried timber to the Whitehall site. Just haven't found any conclusive evidence for it thus far.

[RockySullivan]

That's very strange about the dead child i wonder how old he was? do you guys feel the baby in the jar found around the time time of the discovery of Jackson's parts is unrelated to the case?

[RockySullivan]

the parts found in near the blind school lambeth road, it says they ended up being unrelated a skeleton with no flesh dug up from the ground. but the yorkshire post oct 1 87 says it was a canvas tied w string