Territorial identity

[DVV]

As for your estimation that he would have lived in the specific area where the killings occurred, I agree that it is in all probability the soundest wiew.

Agreed 100%.
Yet, I'm not 100% sure the truth would fit the most reasonnable conjectures we can make...
What about Mile End / Bow? Could it be a "second" probability, or does this area seem unlikely to you? (I don't think of any suspect suggesting this.)

Amitiés,
D

[Ben]

Agreed wholeheartedly, Gareth. Good points well made.

[Varqm]

Hi all,

Would being comfortable with the area include being comfortable with the time of day?

[Fisherman]

DVV asks:

"What about Mile End / Bow? Could it be a "second" probability, or does this area seem unlikely to you?"

My guess, DVV, is that the closer you get to the area Jack exploited, the greater the chance that he would favour it as a secondary hunting ground, simple as that.

The best,

Fisherman

[Monty]

Gareth,

I think the Met search area of October indicates the Police had a similar view.

The same can be said of a northern boundary, we have very little north of Hanbury Street.

Monty

[Monty]

DVV asks:

"What about Mile End / Bow? Could it be a "second" probability, or does this area seem unlikely to you?"

My guess, DVV, is that the closer you get to the area Jack exploited, the greater the chance that he would favour it as a secondary hunting ground, simple as that.

The best,

Fisherman

DVV,

You have Mylett and Wilson out towards that area. Nichols was Bethnal Green/Mile end.

MO doesnt match IMHO however.

Monty

[Observer]

Hi

Certain Killers of prostitutes have been found to have had a history of seeking out and using their services prior to killing them, I'm thinking of Sutliffe, and Ridgeway. It could well be that Jack the Ripper used similar tactics, and if this was so then he was obviously using the prostitutes who frequented the area to the North of Aldgate Whitchapel High Street/Road. This was his area, these were the prostitutes he knew, he knew where he would find them, and I'd bet a pound to a penny that he also lived in that area.

all the best

Observer

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Observer,

This was his area, these were the prostitutes he knew, he knew where he would find them, and I'd bet a pound to a penny that he also lived in that area.

Apart from the implication that Chapman and Eddowes - even Nichols, in absolute fairness - were prostitutes (in the conventional sense), or the implication that he knew them, I couldn't concur with you more.

[Observer]

Hi Sam

Hi Observer,Apart from the implication that Chapman and Eddowes - even Nichols, in absolute fairness - were prostitutes (in the conventional sense), or the implication that he knew them, I couldn't concur with you more.

Knew of them, I didn't mean to imply that he was recognisable to the victims.

Also, Chapman knew that she could take a customer to the rear of 29 Hanbury Street and remain relatively undisturbed, she was no stranger to the vice trade. I am of the opinion that Nichols was making for the stable doors in Bucks Row, again no stranger to the game, a spot for servicing her clients already in mind prior to picking them up. Likewise Eddowes, the dark corner in Mitre Square already foremost in her mind prior to picking up her clients.

all the best

Observer

[caz]

Before you all slap one another on the back a bit too heartily over Jack shi**ing on his own doorstep being the best option here...

...may I just remind you that the pest was never caught?

Quite right, Fisherman.

It has as much to do with psychology and perceived "comfort zones" as it does with transport availability, or lack thereof.

Best regards,
Ben

W-w-w-w-What???????????????????????????????

You mean to say, Ben, that we have been about this since the dawn of time because you could not bring yourself to admit when discussing this with me that it doesn't most likely all come down to a practical Jack having no other option but to keep killing virtually on his own doorstep?

If I had used those very words:

It has as much to do with psychology and perceived "comfort zones" as it does with transport availability, or lack thereof

you'd have sent me away with a very animated flea in my ear, telling me in no uncertain terms that the locality of the November 9th murder points infinitely more towards a local man with no transport options (and no stout walking shoes, presumably) than it does to an arrogant git whose sole aim at that point could have been to offend once again under the same familiar noses, causing the great Whitechapel stink of the century.

Hi Ben,It may have rather more to do with the choice of "red light districts" (or slum areas, back in 1888) available within easy access of one's home, where he might have found easy victims.

There were many such areas dotted around South-East and Central London from which the Ripper could have chosen. Indeed, there would have been "rich pickings" further south in St George's/Ratcliff, not far from where Stride was killed. Yet despite that most of the murders (certainly every one of the more complex mutilation murders) happened north of an imaginary line drawn through Aldgate, Whitechapel High St and Commercial Road. I believe this to be highly significant.

Hi Sam,

Your 'highly significant' is a double-edged sword though, because even if Jack lived at the heart of the particular slum area where his victims lived and died, and depended on his own two feet to get everywhere, he would have enjoyed that same easy access to all those other areas unless he was seriously footwear-challenged or a virtual cripple, and yet he failed to take himself out of the one small field of operations - hence this thread.

This suggests that he stayed put for reasons other than severely limited economic or transport options, or at the very least for reasons that went beyond the purely practical. It wasn't 'practical' for him to kill at all, anywhere, or at any time remember, unless we want to consider self defence as a motive. He wasn't obliged to kill anywhere on November 9th, so worrying about increased numbers of cops was provably lower on his list of priorities than carrying on ripping regardless.

Only one reason for this need apply (from a long list including: obsession, compulsion, repetition, power, control, arrogance, bravado, superstition, ritual, emotional connection, familiarity, comfort, previous success/failure, territory marking, playing up to public perception - to name just a few that are not beyond the realms of possibility where serial offenders are concerned ) for the whole 'must be a local man with no transport options or he would not have kept killing for as long as he did in the same area' logic to fly out of MJK's window for good.

You offer up the possibility that a local Jack stuck to an area just outside one in which he was likely to be recognised - very sensible, very practical, well within anyone's economic/transport boundaries and it still allows for one or more of the less rational factors above to apply as well. And yet you still plump for him operating only in the area he was more likely than any other place on earth to be recognised. So you must have something beyond limited personal options in mind that would explain why he would have done this. Nobody could be that limited, surely?

(For Ben: none of this of course means that Jack was not local or makes any sort of case for him not having a local base. It merely means that you need to concentrate on your other arguments for a local Jack being more likely. The limited transport option went off the rails long ago.)

Love,

Caz
X

[Ben]

...may I just remind you that the pest was never caught?

You can remind us of that if you wish, Caz, but that reminder would only speak more favourably for a locally-based offender who avoided capture because he never elicited suspicion from his neighbours; who was probably a regular user of prostitutes (who never suspected him either) and was able to make good his escape and subsequent retreat to his bolt-hole soon after the murders in that small, concentrated cirumscribed locality.

it doesn't most likely all come down to a practical Jack having no other option but to keep killing virtually on his own doorstep?

Primarily it does, but there's usually an attendent psychological factor that influences the geography of a serial killer's crimes, and as we learn from other serials, that psychological factor rarely, if ever, supports the hypothesis that a commuter frequented the small localized pocket of land for killing purposes. A serial killer will invariably resort to comfort zones, and a comfort zone refers to an area in which the offender feels comfortable and familiar with. Here's a no-brainer: What sort of people are most likely to have felt comfortable in the area Jack killed in? Answer: people who lived there. Which people? People without much funds and private transport, in the main.

As should be apparent, the geography of a serial killer's crimes are conditioned by psychological and economical factors, and a combination of the two (and others) have led experts in this particular field to deduce that Jack the Ripper probably lived relatively central to his crimes; a deduction that is happily lent additional weight by other serial cases.

he would have enjoyed that same easy access to all those other areas unless he was seriously footwear-challenged or a virtual cripple

No, not really. How confident in, and familiar with, these other districts was the killer at the time of the murders? Or rather, what might have occasioned the fairly hefty footslogs to these other locations in the first place in order to become familiar with them? And did they facillitate a hastry retreat to his bolt-hole to dispose of trophies and any attendant gore, or were they rather problematic in this regard?

for the whole 'must be a local man with no transport options or he would not have kept killing for as long as he did in the same area' logic to fly out of MJK's window for good.

...to be replaced with (as it's always been, to my mind) "probably a local man with limited or no transport options which meant he only cultivated a close familiarity and comfort with the district he killed in".

It merely means that you need to concentrate on your other arguments for a local Jack being more likely. The limited transport option went off the rails long ago

It's still firmly on the tracks, Caz. It just isn't the only argument for a local or locally-based offender, and never has been. It's just a good one.

All the best,
Ben

[Sam Flynn]

Before you all slap one another on the back a bit too heartily over Jack shi**ing on his own doorstep being the best option here...

...may I just remind you that the pest was never caught?

...it was a biiiiiig doorstep, Caz - at least in terms of population density. Many tens of thousands of men might have been the villain responsible. Given the hours during which most of the murders happened not too many witnesses would have been about anyway. Even if Jack had been seen by the odd passer-by, the odds are pretty strong that they would not have been known to one another.

We only have to look at those occasions when potential suspects were seen and recall that none who saw them could put a name to a face. Even more noteworthy is the fact that it took quite an effort before some of the victims could be identified after their deaths. Reflecting on these two facts alone just shows how impersonal that area could be at that time.

[Sam Flynn]

did they facillitate a hastry retreat

has·try (hā'strē) n., pl. -tries. A quickly-prepared fruit tart or pie.

[Cap'n Jack]

'Comfort Zone' is another one of those pesky but oh so cosy expressions dredged up out of the twilight zone by baffled profilers in a crass attempt to explain the unexplainable.
None of the nitwits have the common decency or spunk to just say '****ed if I know... it could have been anyone from anywhere'.
I don't know how many times I've said it, but I'll say it again.
When Richard Chase embarked on his murderous killing spree in Sacramento, it was in broad daylight in a busy suburban area, he was dressed in a bright orange jacket, carried a gun and knife openly... and guess what?
Nobody reported him to the police.
I should say that the 'comfort zone' of killers like Richard Chase and the Whitechapel Murderer are on another planet as far away as maths allow from the sun.

[Observer]

Hi Fisherman

I will concede that there is a period in any clandestine affair, particulary at the beginning, when the tryst goes undetected. However, as I said, Stride did not seem to worry about discovery, she being quite at ease drinking in the company of the clerkly man, in an area where she was well known . Also if you doubt Best and Gardners statement then why not throw out Marshall's, PC Smith's, but more importantly Schwartz's.

all the best

Observer