Hate

[Harry D]

These women were the victims of the killer's own self-loathing.

[Pierre]

This doesn't make any sense to me.

Tigers don't kill for the love of killing, but because primeval instincts drive them to eat to survive and, for a carnivore, this involves killing.

Helena

Humans do things to survive too. And some do very bad things.

[Robert St Devil]

I don,t disagree, Helena. Tigers kill to eat to survive. Whether they prefer the taste of boar over elk or get a thrill from chasing down their prey is beyond my knowledge of tigers tho.

How do you have Hate entering ,the frame, Pierre? There,s no proof that he knew any of these women, so he had no genuine reason to hate any of them.

"doing (bad) things to survive" <- ????

[Pierre]

I don,t disagree, Helena. Tigers kill to eat to survive. Whether they prefer the taste of boar over elk or get a thrill from chasing down their prey is beyond my knowledge of tigers tho.

How do you have Hate entering ,the frame, Pierre? There,s no proof that he knew any of these women, so he had no genuine reason to hate any of them.

"doing (bad) things to survive" <- ????

Yes. Killing and mutilating unfortunates is a bad thing to do.

[MsWeatherwax]

I don,t disagree, Helena. Tigers kill to eat to survive. Whether they prefer the taste of boar over elk or get a thrill from chasing down their prey is beyond my knowledge of tigers tho.

How do you have Hate entering ,the frame, Pierre? There,s no proof that he knew any of these women, so he had no genuine reason to hate any of them.

"doing (bad) things to survive" <- ????

Well, nothing to suggest that he had a genuine reason to hate any of these women specifically - I could probably make an argument for him hating women in general though.

Then again, I could make an argument that gender isn't actually relevant to the crimes at all. It just so happened that women who were desperate enough to go into dark places with a 'strange' man while a serial killer was on the loose were easy pickings.

I could make an argument that no emotion whatsoever was required to commit these murders, and I'm sure that plenty of other people on here could do the same thing.

Equally, I could make yet another argument that he was entirely driven by hate, real or imagined.

Without a suspect, it's all a bit irrelevant though.

[Paddy]

Well if it was my suspect (Koz)
He may have started at the time his sister in law/Woolfes wife got pregnant and he may have been told to find a place to live?
She was due about April 89 but lost the baby around Feb 89. She would have conceived around August 1888.
All purely hypothetical though !

Pat...

[Robert St Devil]

Let us elaborate on the concept of "hate".

Killing and mutilating unfortunates is a bad thing to do.

I thought that there was going to be more of an elaboration. From Post #17, it sounded like you might be insinuating, Pierre, that Jack the Ripper was under the impression that he was killing in order to survive.

[DJA]

Apart from the murders,Jack was literally fighting for his professional survival.
Two years hard labor would have put an end to his career and been an enormous embarrassment to others of high rank.
Wrong term these days,however he was a surgeon. Medical officer is probably a better job description.

[Pierre]

I thought that there was going to be more of an elaboration. From Post #17, it sounded like you might be insinuating, Pierre, that Jack the Ripper was under the impression that he was killing in order to survive.

I hypothesize that Jack the Ripper was absolutely convinced that he was killing in order to survive.

[Elamarna]

I hypothesize that Jack the Ripper was absolutely convinced that he was killing in order to survive.

Pierre,

That is an interesting observation.

Do you use survival in the sense of continuing to actually live, or continuing to live the life he had?

Do you think that this was a real physical threat to his continued survival?

Or was it something he perceived to be a threat?

In your opinion did the threat have any substance?


I understand the last question may be difficult to answer.


steve

[007]

I hypothesize that Jack the Ripper was absolutely convinced that he was killing in order to survive.

Your statement, Pierre, made me think of Richard Chase, who believed that he had to kill and drink his victim's blood to prevent his own blood from turning to dust.

Is that what you mean?

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Elamarna;398637]

Pierre,

That is an interesting observation.

Do you use survival in the sense of continuing to actually live, or continuing to live the life he had?

Hi Steve,

The second definition is correct.

And one can say that if the threat would result in certain consequences it could have caused a problem making it almost impossible to actually go on living physically.

Do you think that this was a real physical threat to his continued survival?

It was a real physical threat.

Or was it something he perceived to be a threat?

It was also percieved of as a physical threat.

In your opinion did the threat have any substance?

It had a lot of substance.

I understand the last question may be difficult to answer.

It is easy to answer since it is easy to see from the sources that the threat had a lot of substance. Anyone who sees the sources can easily see that.

Best wishes, Pierre

[Pierre]

Your statement, Pierre, made me think of Richard Chase, who believed that he had to kill and drink his victim's blood to prevent his own blood from turning to dust.

Is that what you mean?

Hi,

No. There was an interaction with the real world and that world was threatening to destroy everything. And "everything" was not to be built up again.

So there was real hate. Hate was the core element.

Regards, Pierre

[Elamarna]

[QUOTE=Pierre;398643]

Hi Steve,

The second definition is correct.

And one can say that if the threat would result in certain consequences it could have caused a problem making it almost impossible to actually go on living physically.



It was a real physical threat.



It was also percieved of as a physical threat.



It had a lot of substance.



It is easy to answer since it is easy to see from the sources that the threat had a lot of substance. Anyone who sees the sources can easily see that.

Best wishes, Pierre

Pierre

The next question would be, how would killing the women reduce or stop this threat?

I do not of course expect an answer.

However one could conjecture several options:


1. The women are the threat, this of course is the old royal theory, I reject that.

2. He is trying to make a point, but who too?

A. You have suggested he was sending a message, well several, to a particular Police official but have not said who?

I would suggest Monro, with Warren also in the know.

However I can take that line no further at present having nothing to use in an hypothesis as regards motive and intent.

B. you have also hinted, as David has also said, that a women is involved, birthdays and witness at Millers court.

What relationship existed between her and your man is not known.

However he could have been trying to convince her of something?

While both options may be linked, neither give an answer to the motive or anything else.



steve

[Elamarna]

Hi,

No. There was an interaction with the real world and that world was threatening to destroy everything. And "everything" was not to be built up again.

So there was real hate. Hate was the core element.

Regards, Pierre

One must assume that if this were the case the hate or the need to act on it is removed in 89/90.

again several options:

the threat is dropped. example, say it was legal, it is decided to proceed no further

The person or persons behind the threat change, maybe they move. or are no more, they die.

sure there are others?


steve