Could Jack have been a rogue copper?

[John Casey]

I just wondered if anyone had considered the possibility Jack could have been a rogue copper. It seems that "maybe" the women might have trusted a policeman to walk them home, and probably he'd be unnoticed by the general populace. Not sure how shifts would have worked back then but could that explain the pattern (if it exists) of when he killed? Just more ramblings upon which to muse....chow!

[Sasha]

I just wondered if anyone had considered the possibility Jack could have been a rogue copper. It seems that "maybe" the women might have trusted a policeman to walk them home, and probably he'd be unnoticed by the general populace. Not sure how shifts would have worked back then but could that explain the pattern (if it exists) of when he killed? Just more ramblings upon which to muse....chow!

This possibility was certainly raised in Michael Caine's "Jack the Ripper". A constable Derek asked Abbeline "why do the prossies keep going with him". Abbeline responded that maybe he was someone they thought they could trust like a doctor or, as Derek added "one of us". This is one of the lines Patricia Cornwell ran in her book about Sickett being the killer. He liked to dress up. So maybe it was someone who dressed up like a cop (rather than a cop, per se). But not Sickett - in my view. Could be, John. Could be ...

Sasha

[kensei]

It seems that in the cases of Chapman, Stride, Eddowes and possibly Kelly, the witness observations of the men seen with the victims just before the murders would seem to preclude a policeman. We can't forget that even though Jack wasn't identified, he was seen.

(Unless it was an off-duty officer in plain clothes that was known to the women, I suppose.)

[Limehouse]

The Ripper-as-policeman theory has crossed my mind more than once. A local policeman would know the locality well, would know the courts and alleyways and aslo, probably, the beat times of his colleagues on duty. I think also, to some extent, the local prostitutes would have trusted a 'select few' local coppers.

However, as Kensei has pointed out, none of the witness testimonies report seeing Stride, Chapman or Kelly with a uniformed policeman prior to their deaths. However, this does not rule out the possibility that a man on the beat was responsible because there would have been plenty of policeman near by at the time of each killing. Eddowes, do not forget, died soon after leaving a police station and she claimed to know who the murderer was.

[Suzi]

Hi Limehouse-
Yep the P.C. Ripper thought lurks rather worryingly at the back of my mind too. As you say what better 'disguise' they do tend to be invisible as people ,especially at this time ,locals were used to seeing coppers in twos or threes on the streets...I have no SERIOUS PC suspect/theory in mind at the mo though sadly..........

Suz x

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

There was a thread on the crashed boards about this issue!

When I heard about this case for the first time - in the 1970s while the Yorkshire Ripper chase was on - my instant thought was "he must have been a copper!"

My interest in JtR ended then as soon as it had begun, but since 2004... Anyway, I still find it possible, but unlikely.

The reasons have already been told on this thread!

All the best
Jukka

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Limehouse,

Eddowes, do not forget, died soon after leaving a police station and she claimed to know who the murderer was.

The story that Eddowes had "come back to London to claim the reward for the WM - I think I know him" is probably yet another distortion or invention. As Don Souden has pointed out, the story didn't appear in the press (in one newspaper only) until after the Eddowes inquest had finished, and - perhaps more damningly - there was no reward in place at the time of her murder, and certainly not before. Even if this weren't true, it's hard to imagine news of a reward reaching the hop-fields of Kent, still less how someone who might have been absent from the East End since late August could have worked out the killer's identity.

[jbarntt]

Hi John,

Sure JtR could have been a rogue cop, could also have been a rogue Anglican priest too. I'm from the USA and in my neck of those woods there was speculation that the Green River killer might be a rogue cop. No truth to it of course.

Speculation can be a good thing when it has some basis in fact, (e.g., the possibility that Geo. Hutchinson was JtR), but absent any such basis, it is of little worth.

jbarntt

[Observer]

Hi John

If he was, he was in plain clothes the night he murdered Eddowes. I doubt anyone other than the man who was observed by Lawende and co was the murderer.

all the best

Observer

[Mitch Rowe]

It seems that in the cases of Chapman, Stride, Eddowes and possibly Kelly, the witness observations of the men seen with the victims just before the murders would seem to preclude a policeman. We can't forget that even though Jack wasn't identified, he was seen.

(Unless it was an off-duty officer in plain clothes that was known to the women, I suppose.)

I dont think there is any evidence left to allow me to conclude JTR was ever seen by anyone.

To me... The evidence that JTR was a Policeman is less than JTR was a Doctor. Neither conclusion is very good Im afraid.

[jbarntt]

Hi Mitch,

I dont think there is any evidence left to allow me to conclude JTR was ever seen by anyone.

To me... The evidence that JTR was a Policeman is less than JTR was a Doctor. Neither conclusion is very good Im afraid.

Your second point seems correct to me, but your first point I think is incorrect. Schwartz and Lawende come to mind as plausible witnesses. That does not mean that they did in fact see JtR, but there is a reasonable likelyhood that they did. In other words there is evidence that JtR was seen and that evidence is not on its face dismissable.

jbarntt

[AdamWalsh]

yes indeed I often also wondered this, chances are NONE of the popular suspects were Jack - lets face it, there is very little circumstantial evidence concerning any of the main suspects. As you say - girls would go with/trust a man in uniform (may not have been a real policeman but maybe had acquired a uniform?) - "I need to talk to you miss, please follow me"..... if someone comes across him with the victim (as long as he is not eviscerating when seen!!) he could easily call for help and shout something like "Quick, get back up, Ive just found this poor woman." Completely possible and truthfully more likely than most of the supposed suspects.

[AdamWalsh]

p.s - I wonder if any of the officers who found the bodies initially were questioned about the possibility of involvement?

[jbarntt]

yes indeed I often also wondered this, chances are NONE of the popular suspects were Jack - lets face it, there is very little circumstantial evidence concerning any of the main suspects. As you say - girls would go with/trust a man in uniform (may not have been a real policeman but maybe had acquired a uniform?) - "I need to talk to you miss, please follow me"..... if someone comes across him with the victim (as long as he is not eviscerating when seen!!) he could easily call for help and shout something like "Quick, get back up, Ive just found this poor woman." Completely possible and truthfully more likely than most of the supposed suspects.

Must have been a bit difficult to have the victim's womb or kidney in your pocket and then call for your fellow coppers to come to you. Also the knife that would have been in your possesion, as JtR did not leave it behind.

jbarntt

[jbarntt]

p.s - I wonder if any of the officers who found the bodies initially were questioned about the possibility of involvement?

First not all the bodies were found by police officers and in the cases where they were do you have any evidence to suggest that the officer was the perp ? If not, why raise the question. In the cases where an officer was the first to find the body, we know who the officer was. Please provide whatever evidence you have that would suggest they/he were JtR.

jbarntt