Could Jack have been a rogue copper?

[caz]

Hiya Caz

A single red mitten is still useful, and better than no red mitten. Likewise, we don`t know what portion of the spectacles remained with Kate, but I bet it was the bit with the glass . I think it is reasonable to assume that Kate carried one glove, rather than the other one was taken as a trophy.

Hi Jon,

I take your point about one mitten and an unspecified portion of specs still having their potential uses to someone in Kate's circumstances. But I'd sooner not assume that Jack had no potential interest or involvement in splitting up either of these 'pairs'. There is at least some indication that he concerned himself with what meagre possessions the women had, both biological and material. It may have been a kind of good luck charm to take a keepsake which would leave a similar item with the victim.

Anyway, back to the rogue copper speculation...

Love,

Caz
X

[Celesta]

Hello Jukka and Nell,

I know that some of the local people suspected that JTR worked on one of the cattle boats, or boats with a similar schedule. I didn't know about Stride having been reputed to have been seeing a policeman. I did have the sense that she was going on a date that night, or that she was hoping to run into a particular person. A clergyman also makes sense, or an official in a church she was familiar with, like the Swedish church.

Best,

Cel

[Carrotty Nell]

I can think of only two ways in which policemen could be even tenuously linked to the case from the suspect angle:

1. Stride was said to have had a lover who was a policeman
2. Walter Dew is the only person I can think of apart from Barnett who calls Kelly by her professional name, Marie.

Of course it does make sense to suggest that the killer was an authority figure familiar in and with the area - but that means it is just as likely that he was a clergyman. Someone like Osborne Jay or Samuel Barnett would have known the area as well as any policeman and victims would have been as likely to be at ease with them as with a policeman. And they could have used their surpluses to hide the bloodstains!

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Celesta!

The following thing was already noticed at the time;

The timing of the murders was surprisingly close to the arrival of the cattle-ships from the Thames!

I don't know, what kind of police officials there were on the spot of their arrival. But at least probably a regular PC.

All the best
Jukka

[Celesta]

I just wondered if anyone had considered the possibility Jack could have been a rogue copper. It seems that "maybe" the women might have trusted a policeman to walk them home, and probably he'd be unnoticed by the general populace. Not sure how shifts would have worked back then but could that explain the pattern (if it exists) of when he killed? Just more ramblings upon which to muse....chow!

Hello John,

I'm late to the thread. Bernard Brown wrote "Was Jack the Ripper a Railway Policeman?" , an article of about 5 or 6 pages, so certainly he thought that JTR could have been a cop. Don't know if you've seen that, or not. He ties the Ripper into the rail stations, too.

Best,

Celesta

[Joseph]

I just wondered if anyone had considered the possibility Jack could have been a rogue copper. It seems that "maybe" the women might have trusted a policeman to walk them home, and probably he'd be unnoticed by the general populace. Not sure how shifts would have worked back then but could that explain the pattern (if it exists) of when he killed? Just more ramblings upon which to muse....chow!

Hi John

This thought has also crossed my mind on a few occasions. I'm by no means any expert on the subject of Jack, but this scenario would help to explain how Jack very much rode his luck in not being caught in the act by someone during his 5 (?)murderous attacks on these unsuspecting females. Perhaps on some previous occasions he had had the opportunity to witness autopsies being performed by police pathologists and had accumulated some basic knowledge of how to extract certain human organs. Pure hypothetical musings on my part I might add.

best wishes,

Joseph

[Jon Guy]

How about speculating on why Kate - who had to carry everything she owned everywhere she went - would bother holding onto part of a pair of specs and one mitten, neither of which would have been much use to her, either to wear or pawn? It would make a lot more sense if she had a pair of specs and a pair of red mittens on her, as well as a whole apron and a pair of kidneys, when she entered Mitre Square.

It would not surprise me one little bit if the rogue (copper or otherwise) who snatched half her apron and one of her kidneys also took the missing portion of specs and the other red mitten as trophies.

Hiya Caz

A single red mitten is still useful, and better than no red mitten. Likewise, we don`t know what portion of the spectacles remained with Kate, but I bet it was the bit with the glass . I think it is reasonable to assume that Kate carried one glove, rather than the other one was taken as a trophy.

[caz]

Cops or Robbers?

Portion of a pair of spectacles
1 red mitten

Hi All,

Ok, so speculating that Jack was a rogue copper is not based on any case evidence (although it's hardly the only speculation around these parts that could be accused of being based on Scotch mist).

How about speculating on why Kate - who had to carry everything she owned everywhere she went - would bother holding onto part of a pair of specs and one mitten, neither of which would have been much use to her, either to wear or pawn? It would make a lot more sense if she had a pair of specs and a pair of red mittens on her, as well as a whole apron and a pair of kidneys, when she entered Mitre Square.

It would not surprise me one little bit if the rogue (copper or otherwise) who snatched half her apron and one of her kidneys also took the missing portion of specs and the other red mitten as trophies.

Love,

Caz
X

[John Casey]

[HTML]There were a number of people who might have seen the killer and none of them described him as dressed as a policeman.

I prefer to consider the evidence as we have it, not just "it could have been anybody who strikes my fancy".

I dont remember saying anything about him being dressed in police uniform. Neither do I remember saying that the idea of him being a policeman was one that I particularly favoured. I asked a hypothetical question, IE given that he seems to have been familiar enough with police beats to avoid being caught in the act by a passing beat officer, could he himself have been a police officer.

[Suzi]

Hi Jon-

Yes,interesting point-we'll never know,sadly,but the delightful idea that it may have been a 'Wanted/Reward' poster refuses to go away,in a rather silly way!

Suzi x

[Bailey]

Incidently nobody can draw Dredd like Brian Bolland 'eh!!!

Yeah, but Bolland's Joker is even better, and I have a tattoo to back up that opinion.

Bet Batman coulda solved this Ripper thing no problem. Oh, wait, he did...

[Jon Guy]

Hi Limehouse,The story that Eddowes had "come back to London to claim the reward for the WM - I think I know him" is probably yet another distortion or invention. As Don Souden has pointed out, the story didn't appear in the press (in one newspaper only) until after the Eddowes inquest had finished, and - perhaps more damningly - there was no reward in place at the time of her murder, and certainly not before. Even if this weren't true, it's hard to imagine news of a reward reaching the hop-fields of Kent, still less how someone who might have been absent from the East End since late August could have worked out the killer's identity.

Oops - it`s early

Interestingly, Sam, I do wonder what the handbill found amongst Eddowes possessions related to ?

Printed handbill
Portion of a pair of spectacles
1 red mitten

[Jon Guy]

Hi Limehouse,The story that Eddowes had "come back to London to claim the reward for the WM - I think I know him" is probably yet another distortion or invention. As Don Souden has pointed out, the story didn't appear in the press (in one newspaper only) until after the Eddowes inquest had finished, and - perhaps more damningly - there was no reward in place at the time of her murder, and certainly not before. Even if this weren't true, it's hard to imagine news of a reward reaching the hop-fields of Kent, still less how someone who might have been absent from the East End since late August could have worked out the killer's identity.

Interestingly, Sam, I do found wonder what the handbill found amongst Eddowes possessions related to ?

Printed handbill
Portion of a pair of spectacles
1 red mitten

[AdamWalsh]

jbarntt - "Yes it is possible"




but yes, I know what your saying. Speculation is no match against witness statements.

[jbarntt]

[HTML]you still miss my point, lets just say for arguments sake - Jack was a
policeman ,killing done he flees into the night, PC Watkins then finds the
body, just because a policeman found the first body is not saying he was
the one that killed her, many police operated in that area.
Anyway, none of this is my favourite theory, just going along with the
original poster of the thread, this is after all a discussion board.[/HTML]

Yes it is possible, but there is no evidence whatsoever to back it up. There were a number of people who might have seen the killer and none of them described him as dressed as a policeman. Speculation should be grounded in the evidence at hand. It is possible that the killer was a former officer in the CSA, or a cardinal in the Roman Catholic church or a 15 year old girl.

I prefer to consider the evidence as we have it, not just "it could have been anybody who strikes my fancy". It's that kind of thought that produces such idiotic suspects as Maybrick, Albert Victor and Wm. Gull.