An historical pattern

[Pierre]

aaaand? whats your point?

all the victims except Polly where murdered by a police officer? Polly wasn't killed by the ripper? What?

Hi Abby,

I think Polly Nichols belongs to the C-5.

A pattern is never 100 percent perfect. There is always some outlier.

Regards, Pierre

[jerryd]

[QUOTE=Pierre;388691]

Hi Jerry,

Why should the killer be dressed as a met cop and what is the evidence for that?



I am sorry, but I know nothing about those railway cops.

Regards, Pierre

I'm sorry Pierre. I might have assumed too much. In your original post you highlighted two Met police stations in relation to the murders. You have stated your suspect is a cop, so I was assuming since you didn't highlight Bishopsgate police station your suspect was subject to the Metropolitan Police.

[Pierre]

Good evening kjab3112 and welcome to Casebook,

There were railroads, undergrounds, trams, in the area. There was a railroad which had a stop right at Buck's Row, the Whitechapel station on this map. The East London Railway was fully functioning in 1888 for passengers and freight. I think the green line is the underground.

[ATTACH]17688[/ATTACH]

This map showed where Montague Druitt's sister and husband lived at the red square, and Montie lived towards the arrow. So we've sort of double-jacked ole Pierre there, but yes I find Pierre's map thought provoking too.

Roy

Hi Roy,

Thanks. And it is an historical fact that the killings were done close to a police station.

Geographically mapping the abode of a serial killer has the disadvantage of not knowing where the adress was. There is just likelyhood as a statistical measure. That is not bad but there is always uncertainty included and nothing can actually be known with 100 percent certainty.

In this case, at least we know where the police stations were situated. So one may think what one wants about the hypothesis of the pattern, but at least it is built on known data.

Regards, Pierre

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=jerryd;388641]

The biggest problem with the idea Pierre is the "city" victim, Eddowes. A met cop found in city territory, presuming he was in uniform, would have a difficult explanation. If he was off shift and out of uniform, maybe.

Hi Jerry,

Why should the killer be dressed as a met cop and what is the evidence for that?

There was an underground railway station close to every murder site, though. Was your suspect a railway cop, by chance? I've personally always liked Bernie Brown's writings on the subject!

I am sorry, but I know nothing about those railway cops.

Regards, Pierre

[Joshua Rogan]

Two minutes sounds wildly optimistic to cover what must be nearly 3/4 mile!

Google maps is normally spot on with my natural walking pace (3mph) and it estimates 14-15 minutes, depending on route. Some people do walk faster though. But even so, if you include dodging in and out of shadows, stopping to clean knives, finding and persuading Kate to accompany him into Mitre Square, it would take at least that long. But he had 30 minutes so no rush.

[Aldebaran]

Hi Al,

I suppose it makes sense that the killer was heading West toward home if he thought his work was done for the night. But the route you describe also happens to be the most likely place to pick up another victim if he had unfinished business....likewise, if Eddowes was intent on earning a little doss money after her release then she would be heading to the same area, from the opposite direction.

Russell Edwards wrote that he walked two possible routes from the Stride site to the place where Eddowes was found. He experimented with a slow approach, lurking in doorways to avoid passersby as he thought the Ripper might have done--and that didn't take more than six minutes. A normal, strolling pace took three minutes and moving rapidly only two.

[Joshua Rogan]

Hi Joshua,

The first underground map (1908) bears out what you say:

Gary

Thanks Gary. Interesting to see the map before it became abstract!

[Joshua Rogan]

On the night of the Double Event, doesn't it make sense that the killer would be headed west, in the direction of home? The site of the murder of Liz Stride wasn't far from Commercial Road, which merged into Whitechapel Road, leading west. I am starting to lean toward this not being a killer who just happened to show up in the places that he did by serendipity, but I have to think about that some more. Regardless, for whatever reason the Double Event occurred, logic dictates the Ripper would be headed in the direction of his own lodgings. It was growing late. After all, Catherine Eddowes had just been released from jail at 1 am.

Hi Al,

I suppose it makes sense that the killer was heading West toward home if he thought his work was done for the night. But the route you describe also happens to be the most likely place to pick up another victim if he had unfinished business....likewise, if Eddowes was intent on earning a little doss money after her release then she would be heading to the same area, from the opposite direction.

[MrBarnett]

As far as I can tell, there were only two places where underground train lines ran in 1888; directly below Whitechapel High Street/Road, and in an arc from Liverpool St station through Aldgate to Tower Hill. I know there are said to be miles of secret tunnels under London, but I don't think there would be steam vents anywhere near Hanbury St or Dorset St.

Hi Joshua,

The first underground map (1908) bears out what you say:



Gary

[Joshua Rogan]

Yes I corrected that. Thanks Gary.

The suggestion by Bernard Brown was the suspect was a railway policeman and was using the underground tubes as an escape route. Either to hide or travel by foot underground is the assumption. He mentioned the trains were steam operated at the time and "blow holes" were found in the streets to allow the steam to escape. These blow holes and stations, Brown suggests, are the way the ripper escaped.

As far as I can tell, there were only two places where underground train lines ran in 1888; directly below Whitechapel High Street/Road, and in an arc from Liverpool St station through Aldgate to Tower Hill. I know there are said to be miles of secret tunnels under London, but I don't think there would be steam vents anywhere near Hanbury St or Dorset St.

[MrBarnett]

aaaand? whats your point?

all the victims except Polly where murdered by a police officer? Polly wasn't killed by the ripper? What?

How about, the only time he was ever more than ten minutes from a bolt hole he was almost caught.;-)

[Abby Normal]

Hi,

I enjoyed reading the suggestion about the strange astronomical pattern.

Polly Nichols was the only victim found 15 minutes walk from a police station.

All the other victims were found 5-10 minutes from a police station - or two.

Regards, Pierre

aaaand? whats your point?

all the victims except Polly where murdered by a police officer? Polly wasn't killed by the ripper? What?

[MrBarnett]

Yes I corrected that. Thanks Gary.

The suggestion by Bernard Brown was the suspect was a railway policeman and was using the underground tubes as an escape route. Either to hide or travel by foot underground is the assumption. He mentioned the trains were steam operated at the time and "blow holes" were found in the streets to allow the steam to escape. These blow holes and stations, Brown suggests, are the way the ripper escaped.

That sounds a very interesting theory. I'll look it up, it will make a refreshing change from Lechmere (and the Tomkins brothers for that matter).

[Joshua Rogan]

Shoreditch Station for these two murders was closer or even Bishopsgate [Liverpool Street Station].

Definitely closer to Hanbury St (Dorset St is about the same), but it was an East London Railway line at the time, not District or Hammersmith. It didn't become part of the underground system until 1913.

[jerryd]

Hi Jerry,

The arrow was already there. That Shoreditch station was on the line that came out of Broad Street, the one you mention, which was closer to Spitalfields, seems to have been on the Liverpool Street Line.

The point, though, as you say, is that commuter trains did not run in the small hours when most of the WM took place.

Do you know if Bradshaws Guides can be found online?


Gary

Yes I corrected that. Thanks Gary.

The suggestion by Bernard Brown was the suspect was a railway policeman and was using the underground tubes as an escape route. Either to hide or travel by foot underground is the assumption. He mentioned the trains were steam operated at the time and "blow holes" were found in the streets to allow the steam to escape. These blow holes and stations, Brown suggests, are the way the ripper escaped.