GSG because of Schwartz?

[Wickerman]

See my point here? The discussion of the GSG has gone Cornwellian. What started as speculation has somehow become established fact, i.e., that Jack wrote the GSG and that the message is anti semitic in nature, and that he is an englishman and not a Jew.

Whoa. Let's take a step back here folks. It simply can't be proven that Jack wrote it and I am sorry but the message is ambiguous and thus open to interpretation. Simply making arguments as to its authorship and its meaning do not create established facts. If it were that easy then Patricia Cornwell has already solved the case.

c.d.

Well said c.d.
Reality can be tough medicine to the theorist.

[c.d.]

Do Sickert's paintings reveal details that only the killer would know and are they symbolic of the killings themselves? Well Patricia Cornwell says yes and some art critics say she is full of it. So which one of them is correct? I am going to go out on a limb and say that only Sickert himself would know for sure.

See my point here? The discussion of the GSG has gone Cornwellian. What started as speculation has somehow become established fact, i.e., that Jack wrote the GSG and that the message is anti semitic in nature, and that he is an englishman and not a Jew.

Whoa. Let's take a step back here folks. It simply can't be proven that Jack wrote it and I am sorry but the message is ambiguous and thus open to interpretation. Simply making arguments as to its authorship and its meaning do not create established facts. If it were that easy then Patricia Cornwell has already solved the case.

c.d.

[Hunter]

And so with that in mind -- with knowledge of two murders being perpetrated in the area, and it now crawling with police... the murderer in the second instance decides to go back with incriminating evidence and place it and a cryptic message at a Jewish tenement - just for jolly to make a point of clarity foir the events of the night shall we say.

You missed your calling, Mike. With your imagination, you should write a novel.

[Michael W Richards]

Without being the murderer in both instances, how did he necessarily know about the Berner St. murder when much of the police didn't even know - especially details like the exact location and the anarchists club?

I just answered this on the BSM thread, but essentially the time gap between the murder and the cloth being found is almost 70 minutes. I trust Longs vehement statement, so that leaves some time for the killer to have heard about the goings on in Berner Street at an Anarchists club from street chatter as news spread.

We have no idea where this guy might have gone with the cloth and organs, but who knows, he might have lived near Berner Street himself. Or he might just be anti Jew...like many of the local population.

[Batman]

It seems to me all together very simple and parsimonous to just say JtR did the graffiti because a Jew disturbed him with Stride. We have evidence that whoever attacked Stride called a Jewish person the racial slur 'Lipski'.

What this is fatal to is the Kozminski hypothesis (my favorite since reading Fido's trials and crimes). However if the above is right, not only didn't Kozminski do it, but the later writings by law enforcement connected with the case where a Jew is indicated as the perpetrator are at odds too with it. Men who knew about the Lipski slur. Did they ever suggest a connection between the GSG to Schwartz?

No matter how much graffiti was in Whitechapel at the time, or whatever graffiti wars where taking place, it seems that one has to play the coincidence card yet again or else the inference is clear. JtR is a cockey speaking englishman, not an immigrant and not a jew.

[Michael W Richards]

It makes everything more implausible. It's good in a Dickensian way, I guess.

Mike

In fact it would make perfect sense if it was a slight...just as it is worded. It states that the Jews will NOT be blamed for something on a night when Jews were seeking NOT to be blamed for Strides death. The fact that it so easily fits in with the nights events seems to be overlooked by many.

Of course it could have been written by someone other than the killer(s) of that Double Event night too. Someone who suspected foul play on Berner Street....at an anarchists club.

Cheers

[Bridewell]

it would be reasonable to assume that Schwartz had run off to find the nearest policeman.

In that case would he not have run back towards Commercial Street where he was more likely to find one?

[lynn cates]

early

Hello Barnaby.

"Suppose Jack is a local who did not kill Liz Stride. On his way back from murdering Eddowes he hears the commotion associated with the Stride murder and is ticked off that he is being blamed for it."

At that early time, how would he have know that HE was being blamed for it?

Cheers.
LC

[Barnaby]

Just had an interesting thought on this that probably won't stand up to scrutiny (I don't believe it!) but here goes:

Suppose Jack is a local who did not kill Liz Stride. On his way back from murdering Eddowes he hears the commotion associated with the Stride murder and is ticked off that he is being blamed for it. The message is a commentary on the fact that the murder occurred right next to a Jewish social club and yet "Jack the Ripper" did it (i.e., the police are searching for him - innocent of this crime - when the killer was a Jew).

[Abby Normal]

If JtR was interrupted by Schwartz and made the racial slur 'Lipski' would this not explain the second anti-semetic statement, the GSG, as a comment about Schwartz?

Basically JtR is saying in the GSG that Jews (like Schwartz) are ignorant and to blame.

Hi Batman
could be. But im not sure specifically about being "ignorant". I think he was basically pissed off by being interrupted by so many jews that night so wrote the GSG to blame them (send police/public in their direction).

[Hunter]

We know that the cloth is the link to the Mitre Square murder, and we might have a link to the Berner Street murder with the writing, but does that mean definitively that they both were committed by the same person? Could the murderer in Mitre have been attempting to distance himself from Berner Street...

Without being the murderer in both instances, how did he necessarily know about the Berner St. murder when much of the police didn't even know - especially details like the exact location and the anarchists club?

[lynn cates]

rum job

Hello Michael. Thanks.

It does, indeed. I tried to see all that at one time. Gave it up as a rum job.

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

Hello Michael.

"It isn't anti semitic. I still don't know why people keep thinking that it is."

Umm, because it makes a good story?

Cheers.
LC

It makes everything more implausible. It's good in a Dickensian way, I guess.

Mike

[lynn cates]

good story

Hello Michael.

"It isn't anti semitic. I still don't know why people keep thinking that it is."

Umm, because it makes a good story?

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

If JtR was interrupted by Schwartz and made the racial slur 'Lipski' would this not explain the second anti-semetic statement, the GSG, as a comment about Schwartz?

No. It isn't anti semitic. I still don't know why people keep thinking that it is.

Mike