Does the Goulston Street Graffito eliminate Jewish Immigrants as suspects?

[The Rookie Detective]

There is no certainty the writing was anti-semetic . It could have been written by a Jew who is lashing out , or feels compelled to lash out at society. He will not be blamed for nothing IE His people are being persecuted for something they haven't done. So this time they/he will do something about that.

Regards Darryl

A bit like when Lipski was wrongly convicted of pouring acid down a pregnant woman's throat and he got the blame for it.
His false confession just hours before he was hanged didn't help his cause.

The GSG and the Ripper linking Eddowes apron to it by dropping it underneath it, is perhaps a response to the author's belief that Lipski was innocent.

The proximity to the murders of Miriam Angel and then Stride is also important to note.

But what's the link between Israel Lipski and the GSG?

Well...

The GSG - apron- Eddowes- Ripper - double event- Berner Street - Stride - Schwartz account- shout of Lipski - Israel Lipski.

Considering that nothing Schwartz said he witnessed was seen or heard by anyone else, it raises the question; was Schwartz the Ripper incognito?

Did the Ripper begin his killing spree after the hanging of Lipski?

There is one other person of interest who was involved directly in both the aftermath of the murder of both Stride and Miriam Angel; and that was Charles Le Grand.

Now we can be 100% certain that Le Grand wasn't Schwartz because they looked completely different.

But it does highlight that there are certain links and concidences that need to be addressed.

Lots to ponder.

[Darryl Kenyon]

There is no certainty the writing was anti-semetic . It could have been written by a Jew who is lashing out , or feels compelled to lash out at society. He will not be blamed for nothing IE His people are being persecuted for something they haven't done. So this time they/he will do something about that.

Regards Darryl

[Doctored Whatsit]

Personally I am reluctant to accept coincidences - that the apron and the GSG just happened by pure chance to be there in the same place at the same time seems possible but unlikely. I think that the GSG must have been freshly written, as an anti Jewish slur would surely have been removed from a doorway of a property occupied by Jews.

I am firmly in the camp that believes that the most likely occupation of JtR was a butcher slaughterer, as the murders were done by someone who knew exactly what he was doing, a swift cold-blooded execution by someone who would have got little or no blood on his person, the m.o. was akin to the slaughter of animals, innards were said to have been removed by someone who knew how to do this with "one sweep of a knife", he possessed "anatomical knowledge", the police surgeon's description of the weapon used matches a butcher's sticking knife, and a butcher carried chalk to mark prices on his board. I think the police surgeons believed this, and passed the message to the police, because Swanson reported that numerous butcher/slaughterers were interviewed.

One of the many things that interests me about the GSG is the mis-spelling "Juwes". In view of the double event, I am intrigued by the suggestion that the actual word might have been "Iwmec" - the International Working Mens' Educational Club. If inscribed in "joined up" writing, it would look very similar to "Juwes", but would be likely to be misinterpreted by almost everyone. This directly links the two murders that night, and I can't rule this out.

[SchirrGenius]

hi SG
Degas!?! how on earth did you even begin to think it could have been him? what lead to your initial suspician?

Short version:
I've always been creeped out by his art

Long version:
During Covid lockdown I socialized online and noticed that conspiracy theories were running rampant and that there were genuine proponents of the meme: "When someone tells you that they don't believe in the moon landing, scoff at them and say, 'you believe in the MOON?'" that were egging people into further radicalization more or less for fun.

I was curious about how wild conspiracies start and IRONICALLY, I wanted to find one that, whether true or not, would not hurt anyone. I had painted a version of Degas's L 'Etoile but wherein both the dancer and the black shadow behind her were zombies, and it was hanging on my wall. "Jack the Ripper and the families of his victims are all long dead" I thought "Could Edgar Degas have been the Ripper?"

And then, much to my dismay, I couldn't prove to myself that he wasn't, and here I am, four years later, researching the deaths of a series of murders of Parisian courtesans that predate the Ripper killings (which took place when Degas was age 54, and approaching the point of needing assistance in travel for his declining eyesight) all because of my own curiosity/hubris.

This is not a fun rabbithole, would not recommend. But thank you for asking.

[Abby Normal]

Okay, the major caveat of my favored suspect will be in my signature below. Now that you've been warned of my bias:

Contemporaries such as Roselyn Stevenson wrote that the double negative and even the spelling of the word "Juwes" seemed like French translated to English.

For example, since there is no photograph of the graffito, it was only copied down by two(?) English-speaking policemen, it's possible that the word was not "Juwes" at all, but instead, "the Juives," which is a correct spelling of "Jews" in French, albeit the feminine form.

anonymous letter attributed to Stevenson: https://www.casebook.org/press_repor.../18881201.html
Commentary: 'Letter From the Sickbed - D'Onston Writes To The Police' by George https://www.casebook.org/dissertatio...tonwrites.html

...the use of the feminine, despite Stevenson's support, seems odd to me, because why use the feminine to talk about men? Is it a patriarchal insult? Another mistake?

I'd really love to have a native French speaker weigh in on that theory, does anyone speak French fluently? I'm only a neophyte.

(Charlie, maybe? I'm too new here to know if you can tag someone or if it's polite/rude to do so.)

As for the other elements involved, if you were curious, chalk was readily available and affordable in the 19th century.

Most schoolchildren would learn their letters on a slate in school, accompanied by slate pencils, which look sturdy enough to me to use on a walled surface. Many chalkboards were simply slate-painted walls in the first place, though they would have been sanded flat rather than being painted brick.

Good information on use of chalk in 19th century education: https://pballew.blogspot.com/2023/06...oards-and.html

Chalk was also widely used in cheap breads as a filler and artificial whitener. A dangerous practice, of course. Information on that here: https://edu.rsc.org/feature/the-figh...020253.article

Chalk was also used for any industry that required measurements, such as masonry and tailoring. So while not everyone would walk around with chalk on a daily basis, it was very possible for those engaged in tutelage or blue collar work to carry it.

I think that the very real possibility that both Eddowes and Stride were visibly "English" women hanging around Jewish Socialist meetings looking for Johns should be considered as part of the motivation for their selection as victims, should you believe they were both victims of the same killer.

How does that impact the meaning of the graffito, then?

hi SG
Degas!?! how on earth did you even begin to think it could have been him? what lead to your initial suspician?

[Filby]

I've been watching the true crime documentaries on Netflix and my view is that each serial murderer stayed "true" to their messaging brand. So can we connect any Ripper intent from the most likely authentic "messages" we have from the Ripper? The GSG, Lusk Letter, "Lipski" slur (if you believe BS is he) and witnesses that overheard at least some minimal dialogue? I don't see any consistencies. The statement he made was in the grotesque deeds he performed. That was his message therefore I'm of the mindset that he didn't write any of them, most likely.

[SchirrGenius]

Okay, the major caveat of my favored suspect will be in my signature below. Now that you've been warned of my bias:

Contemporaries such as Roselyn Stevenson wrote that the double negative and even the spelling of the word "Juwes" seemed like French translated to English.

For example, since there is no photograph of the graffito, it was only copied down by two(?) English-speaking policemen, it's possible that the word was not "Juwes" at all, but instead, "the Juives," which is a correct spelling of "Jews" in French, albeit the feminine form.

anonymous letter attributed to Stevenson: https://www.casebook.org/press_repor.../18881201.html
Commentary: 'Letter From the Sickbed - D'Onston Writes To The Police' by George https://www.casebook.org/dissertatio...tonwrites.html

...the use of the feminine, despite Stevenson's support, seems odd to me, because why use the feminine to talk about men? Is it a patriarchal insult? Another mistake?

I'd really love to have a native French speaker weigh in on that theory, does anyone speak French fluently? I'm only a neophyte.

(Charlie, maybe? I'm too new here to know if you can tag someone or if it's polite/rude to do so.)

As for the other elements involved, if you were curious, chalk was readily available and affordable in the 19th century.

Most schoolchildren would learn their letters on a slate in school, accompanied by slate pencils, which look sturdy enough to me to use on a walled surface. Many chalkboards were simply slate-painted walls in the first place, though they would have been sanded flat rather than being painted brick.

Good information on use of chalk in 19th century education: https://pballew.blogspot.com/2023/06...oards-and.html

Chalk was also widely used in cheap breads as a filler and artificial whitener. A dangerous practice, of course. Information on that here: https://edu.rsc.org/feature/the-figh...020253.article

Chalk was also used for any industry that required measurements, such as masonry and tailoring. So while not everyone would walk around with chalk on a daily basis, it was very possible for those engaged in tutelage or blue collar work to carry it.

I think that the very real possibility that both Eddowes and Stride were visibly "English" women hanging around Jewish Socialist meetings looking for Johns should be considered as part of the motivation for their selection as victims, should you believe they were both victims of the same killer.

How does that impact the meaning of the graffito, then?

[Lewis C]

If the GSG wasn't deemed relevant to the Ripper case, then why did the police take the decision to have it wiped off before it could be formally logged/photographed as evidence?

Hi RD,

They erased it because they thought that it could lead to violence if people saw it. It could have led to violence because people might have thought that the Ripper wrote it, whether he did or not. When the goal is to prevent rioting, people's perceptions were what mattered, not whether the writing actually did have anything to do with the Ripper case.

[Scott Nelson]

The man who murdered Eddowes was trying to show he was linked to the Jewish community in some way, and imply he was also the man who had slain Stride earlier.

I doubt he even saw the tiny, chalked writing. He was just trying to discard the piece of apron and leave the area ASAP.

[Patrick Differ]

RD - i Agree with your assessment. The use of double negatives that canceled each other out to say a positive statement was not uncommon.

Stated positively - The Jews are the men who will be blamed.

That appears to be a definitive statement

[The Rookie Detective]

If the GSG wasn't deemed relevant to the Ripper case, then why did the police take the decision to have it wiped off before it could be formally logged/photographed as evidence?

Regardless of whether the Ripper wrote it or not, the more important question is; Did the Ripper know the GSG was there beforehand? (if he wasn't the author)

The choice to drop the bloodied and soiled apron segment underneath the GSG would imply he was already aware of the graffiti; or else...

...he drops the apron randomly under a random piece of chalked graffiti that were not connected to the killings and its all just a big coincidence.

I'm not one for believing in such coincidences.

The chalked writing by itself, wasn't the literal message the killer was trying to send...it was the killer's decision to deliberately drop the bloodied apron from his victim under the chalked writing, that was the real "message."

The man who murdered Eddowes was trying to show he was linked to the Jewish community in some way, and imply he was also the man who had slain Stride earlier.

Both Stride and Eddowes were non-Jewesses who worked within the Jewish community and both claimed to have connections to Fashion Street. They were both murdered on the same night, one outside a radical Jewish club and the other a stones throw from the Synagogue.
And so by placing the apron under the GSG, the killer wasn't being antisemitic, he was merely making a statement; that he was connected to the Jewish community.
Whether he wrote the GSG is besides the point.

[Patrick Differ]

What was the Primary language in Whitechapel? English.
What was likely the second? Yiddish and Hebrew.
And the third? a Melting pot, pick one. Polish, Russian...

As I said in the post the use of double negatives was definately being taught in Whitechapel.

If JtR were a local as I firmly believe he was, then he in fact was a scholar, or yes attended school. And if local what choice of Schools were there? The Jewish Free School and Ragged Schools? It was Whitechapel not Oxfordshire.

Truth and Logic are often just turning over stones with some critical thinking. Connecting dots using boolean logic..." and".." or"...which is also the basis of reliability analysis.

[Fiver]

Logically, if JtR were approximately 30 to 40 years of age and was educated enough to write a double negative sentence, what does that mean?

Plenty of European languages use double negatives, though not necessarily in the same way as English.

In the 1871 Census would the description " scholar" possibly point to a man of right approximate age for the killer?

In most Census records, someone listed as a scholar was usually a child attending school.

[Abby Normal]

Would imagine that this topic has been exhausted but I thought I would ask the question again. Perhaps new thoughts on the topic.

If JtR in fact wrote the Graffito on Goulston Street, how could he have written it without the knowledge and training of how to write it?

The Free Schools for both Jew and Gentile were the training grounds. At the time it appears that Latin Grammar was institutionalized and the learning of double negatives was part of the training or teaching.

In the case of the graffito or sentence, it would be common for the double negatives (not, nothing) to cancel each other out! Leaving- The Jews are the men that will be blamed .

Would a Jewish immigrant who came to London between 1875 to 1888 ( if JtR was 30 years of age and Free School ends at age 14), actually know how to write a double negative?
Speaking Yiddish and possibly able to write in Hebrew only?

The Lipski Trial illustrated the need for translators. Israel Scwartz needed a translator. Israel Lipski could speak some English after being around for a couple of years.

Logically, if JtR were approximately 30 to 40 years of age and was educated enough to write a double negative sentence, what does that mean?

In the 1871 Census would the description " scholar" possibly point to a man of right approximate age for the killer?

This would seem to be a Lead but I'm not sure how much investigation has already be done?

If JtR was the writer, and I believe he was, it is doubtful the Jewish Immigrants could have written it.

The Jews are the men to be blamed!

This statement could be an accusation ?- they did it .
Or
It could mean ownership, a boast ?- yea I did it, catch me if you can...

Thoughts??

imho yes pretty much and probably written by a local gentile. the translation from an expert in victorian language means ...the jews wont take the blame for anything.

remember the night of the double event schwartz was described as looking heavily jewish and was shouted at lipski! which was a jewish slur at the time. i think the ripper was pissed off by being interupted and or going with the idea of a jewish killer(leather apron/ pizer was the leading candidate at the time)

it all kind of ties together, for me anyway.

[Patrick Differ]

Seriously. Ok