The GSG. What Does It Mean??

[Wickerman]

One thing to remember is that graffiti was relatively rare, ......

"Walter Dew subsequently remarked that the graffito was one among many in the district purporting to be by the murderer, and he did not believe any of them to be genuine"
The Jack the Ripper, A-Z, p.146 (ppbk).

regards, Jon.S

[The Good Michael]

"Walter Dew subsequently remarked that the graffito was one among many in the district purporting to be by the murderer, and he did not believe any of them to be genuine"
The Jack the Ripper, A-Z, p.146 (ppbk).

regards, Jon.S

Dew is more anecdotal than trustworthy. However, 'many' can mean 5 or more, and 'district' doesn't mean only Goulston and only that particular building block where, as far as I know, there was no other graffiti discovered, nor was there mention of small, neat handwrting being used elsewhere.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Mike

[Stewart P Evans]

Dictionaries

Hi Pippin,
The term "boss" had been in use in England before 1888 - it's hard to tell when, but since it turns up in "respectable" published British literature in 1887 (Charles Dickens junior), it's a safe bet that it had been in vernacular use long before then.

Below entries are from a standard dictionary of 1887 and a Victorian dictionary of slang -

[Sam Flynn]

Thanks for the contemporary back-up, Stewart. I note, from the slang dictionary, that boss as "head man" had become the number one definition. I can only assume that the term had been in reasonably common usage in Britain for some time previously, in order to have attained that "number 1" status.

Out of interest, was the slang dictionary also published in 1887?

[Robert]

According to this, in the UK the word acquired its meaning of "master" in the mid 19th century :

http://www.worldwidewords.org/topicalwords/tw-bos1.htm

[perrymason]

According to this, in the UK the word acquired its meaning of "master" in the mid 19th century :

http://www.worldwidewords.org/topicalwords/tw-bos1.htm

Hi Robert,

I think still likely filtered from "the colonies", I believe thats where people from the United Kingdom were exposed to slaves, rather than servants, which for centuries were the accepted means of getting your tracts work done. Im sure the people working in the fields all felt abused, but servitude and slavery are different mindsets.

I think a "Master" infers slaves, and a "Mister/Boss", servants....though they may not get treated a speck differently.

Cheers Robert.

[Robert]

Hi Michael

Well, the article says that it came back to the UK from America with this added meaning of master, or something similar. Obviously no two words have exactly the same meaning, but "master" was used in Britain in the sense of "master to a servant" rather than to a slave. E.g. Joseph in "Wuthering Heights" says "T' maister's i' the laith."

[perrymason]

Hi Michael

Well, the article says that it came back to the UK from America with this added meaning of master, or something similar. Obviously no two words have exactly the same meaning, but "master" was used in Britain in the sense of "master to a servant" rather than to a slave. E.g. Joseph in "Wuthering Heights" says "T' maister's i' the laith."

I know, and Depeche Mode has a great tune title I wouldnt want to mess with either. But "Master" was definately a word referring to a dominant relationship with African slaves in America though. As was the term "Boss" when used by the slave.

All the best Robert.

[Wickerman]

Dew is more anecdotal than trustworthy. However, 'many' can mean 5 or more, and 'district' doesn't mean only Goulston and only that particular building block where, as far as I know, there was no other graffiti discovered, nor was there mention of small, neat handwrting being used elsewhere.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Mike

Have you ever bothered to enter 'chalk' into the Newspaper search window?
You will find a good number of chalked graffiti quotes beginning, as Dew say's, with the Chapman murder.

This idea that graffiti was rare, did you come up with this on your own or do you have a quote from the time that declares it was rare?

Whether you trust Dew's recollections of the murders or not, I can't see what reason you would have for not believing his comments about graffiti.
At least Dew was there, he isn't sat at a computer 120 yrs later just thinking he knows.
So, I would like to know what your opinion is based on because, I don't think you've researched it - so go ahead, surprise me.

[Pippin Joan]

But "Master" was definately a word referring to a dominant relationship with African slaves in America though. As was the term "Boss" when used by the slave.

I don't connect "boss" as a term used in a master-slave relationship in the US, but with a northeastern US relationship as in the dictionary entry above. It was one of the Dutch borrowings. "Boss" was common in the Northeast in the latter half of the 1800s, as we can see from the nicknames of the corrupt political bosses of the day. I'm sure it wasn't unused in England either, but very slangy. A totally unconnected question -- at least where I grew up in New England, the pet name for a cow is always Bossy. Why is that? Is it because a cow acts bossy?

[Howard Brown]

The Good Mike:

You aren't wrong. No one at that time mentioned graffiti being on the building itself, which Wick knows full well. Who shivs a git if graffiti was down on Mrs. Cohen's house 5 doors down? Its irrelevant.

Wickerman,like all the heathen who dispute the provenance of the G...have to explain why a detective, not an armchair Ripperologist, stated that it was "fresh" as in it was just put there. They also have to explain all the hoopla the flatfoots made about it....if it was a "random" graffiti.

Wickerman...God bless him ...wasn't there. Detective Constable Dan Halse was.

[Wickerman]

The Good Mike:

You aren't wrong. No one at that time mentioned graffiti being on the building itself, which Wick knows full well.

The argument was, that graffiti in general was quite rare, implying this graffiti was special.
I want to know what this assertion is based on. Something more than wishfull thinking I hope.
An assertion such as this requires a quote, a reference. ...I'm waiting for one.

Who shivs a git if graffiti was down on Mrs. Cohen's house 5 doors down? Its irrelevant.

Because, that would help determine how proliferant graffiti was in the immediate area.

Wickerman,like all the heathen who dispute the provenance of the G...have to explain why a detective, not an armchair Ripperologist, stated that it was "fresh" as in it was just put there.

Halse also tried to tell us where the apron was found, even though, by his own admission, he never saw the apron in situ.

So, lets define 'fresh', you said "just put there", define 'just',...24 minutes old?, 24 hrs old?, 48 hrs old?

They also have to explain all the hoopla the flatfoots made about it....if it was a "random" graffiti.

Why?
Are you saying the police 'knew' it was recent?
Of course they didn't, so why does anyone have to explain the 'beliefs' of someone else. Beliefs are not facts!, but the only fact we can all agree to is that no-one knew how old that graffiti was.
Imaginations, then as now, were running wild!

A bloodstained knife turned up in Whitechapel road on the night of Strides murder, so what!!

Wickerman...God bless him ...wasn't there. Detective Constable Dan Halse was.

Thats argumentative. I quoted a contemporary source, Dew who was familiar with Whitechapel. I quoted someone who saw the proliferation of graffiti after the Chapman murder.
I want to know who 'said' graffiti was rare in the area.
It's obvious the premise behind these type of arguments are to subversively add credence to the GSG. This technique of employing false arguments is how myths are created.

[The Good Michael]

Wickerman,

It is odd that the changing of a word can make such a difference. I never said that graffiti was 'quite rare'. I said, "Relatively rare." That means in comparison to today and to modern large population centers, it was relatively rare as in, not a bombardment of messages that you might see in such places as London, New York, L.A., or Philadelphia today. If you want to believe that one could walk anywhere in the East End in 1888 and see all sorts of messages, I can't disprove that, as I wasn't there. If you can prove it, go ahead. Let me remind you that this I have no agenda for thinking this, except that it is logical to me.

Cheers,

Mike

[perrymason]

Wickerman,

It is odd that the changing of a word can make such a difference. I never said that graffiti was 'quite rare'. I said, "Relatively rare." That means in comparison to today and to modern large population centers, it was relatively rare as in, not a bombardment of messages that you might see in such places as London, New York, L.A., or Philadelphia today. If you want to believe that one could walk anywhere in the East End in 1888 and see all sorts of messages, I can't disprove that, as I wasn't there. If you can prove it, go ahead. Let me remind you that this I have no agenda for thinking this, except that it is logical to me.

Cheers,

Mike

Hi Mike,

I think that is a good point to raise, and it puts white chalk writing on a black dado without much if any surrounding graffiti near it into perspective I believe.

Graffiti like you intended to address, like a New York subway car, was not like this entranceway, and any message there wouldnt be just the authors desire to have his thoughts placed with others like him, or above them....as some is in the early scenario.

The guy wrote specifically on a black surface, not all the walls were suitable for writing that would stand out.

Best regards Mikey.

[Fisherman]

"The guy wrote specifically..."

Or girl, Michael.

Fisherman