The GSG. What Does It Mean??

[Monty]

How,

They also have to explain all the hoopla the flatfoots made about it....if it was a "random" graffiti.

The writings location near to the apron ensured the right and proper thing to do was to investigate it.

Monty

[Sam Flynn]

The guy wrote specifically on a black surface, not all the walls were suitable for writing that would stand out.

What's particularly "non-standout" about redbrick walls, or grey ones, Mike? I've seen plenty of graffiti on such surfaces, and it stands out starkly enough under any lighting conditions.

Also, the black brick dado was at shoulder-height, as was the graffito - I wouldn't have expected its author to go out of his way to crouch or stand on tiptoe to write it. Ergo, if anyone of average height had decided to chalk a message on that wall, chances are the graffito would have ended up on a black bit anyway.

[Wickerman]

Excuse me, Man O' Straw...

The "G" had 3/4 inch capital letters and its height has been mentioned before.

Seeing as I'm apparently among a bunch of pro-GSG'ers, who prefer to see something positive to connect this scribble with the murders, here's my honest-to-goodness two cents about the true size of the GSG.

I don't think it was 3/4" high, it's a mistake.

It's too precise, what are we to believe, someone got out a tape measure and measured all the characters?
Nope, if the principal characters really had been 3/4" tall we would just have read they were about 1" tall.

I can't remember what my source was for that statement, but I'm sure it was a type-written source, like a newspaper, not a handwritten source. Anyone, correct me if I'm wrong.

I would be willing to wager that the 'slash' mark "/" in the original handwritten source that the typed article was written up from, was a 'dash' "-".
Someone misread a 'dash' for a 'slash', and we end up reading that the capital letters in the Goulston Street Graffiti were 3/4 (three-quarters) of an inch tall, when in actual fact, I believe it really said they were 3-4 (three-to-four) inches tall.
Nobody measured the characters, it was an estimate.
Three-quarters is a definite measurement, three-to-four inches is an estimate, I'll wager that be the truth!

So ok, you pro-GSG'ers, I'll give that ta-youz-all for free..(coz I think it's thee most believeable interpretation) - but I still don't think it has anything to do with the murders.
Fresh could be 2 hrs old, it could be 3 hrs old and still fresh-looking, fresh doesn't automatically mean it has to be 1hr and 10mins old precisely. It could still have been written the night before and remain 'fresh-looking'.


All the best, Jon.S

[Sam Flynn]

Nope, if the principal characters really had been 3/4" tall we would just have read they were about 1" tall.

Unfortunately, Jon, at least one newspaper inquest transcript (the London Daily News of 12th Oct 1888), gives us just that:

[A juror] "How did you account for its being recent?"

[Halse] "Because it seemed fresh, and if it had been long written it would have been rubbed by people passing. It was written on the black brick in good schoolboy's handwriting. The capitals would be under an inch high, and italics in proportion."

..."would be under an inch" being the operative phrase. The words differ subtly from the usual accounts, and this transcript adds further detail than most, which suggests that the reporter from the Daily News might not have been using the same scribbled (and purportedly ambiguous) copy as perhaps the others did, but his own notes. If so, this is an independent account of what went on, seemingly supporting the ¾" interpretation.

Either that, or Halse was reading from his notes and couldn't read his own scribble - which is, I suppose, possible.

[Scott Nelson]

"...in good schoolboy's handwriting." It couldn't be more obvious. It was written by a schoolboy. I have an idea of who.

[Wickerman]

....."Because it seemed fresh, and if it had been long written it would have been rubbed by people passing. It was written on the black brick in good schoolboy's handwriting. The capitals would be under an inch high, and italics in proportion."[/INDENT][/INDENT]..."would be under an inch" being the operative phrase. ...

Can't argue with that, ..win-some, ..lose-some.
Thanks for that Sam.

[Wickerman]

Just a minute...Sam!
You left the last line out..

A juror - How did you account for its being recent? - Because it seemed fresh, and if it had been long written it would have been rubbed by people passing. It was written on the black brick in good schoolboy's handwriting. The capitals would be under an inch high, and italics in proportion. The bricks are painted black up to about four feet high, like a dado, and above that are white.

I thought Scott was joking...4 feet from the ground?, thats why it was described as "schoolboy-hand".

[Howard Brown]

"The size of the capital letters would be about ¾ in, and the other letters were in proportion."- transcription of the October 12th Daily Telegraph, here on Casebook.

"The capital letters about three quarters of an inch high..." from page 499 of The Complete JTR by Phil Sugden...of the same newspaper account.

Dear Wickerman:

What we need to see to put your mind at ease is the original newspaper.

However,my mind is at ease,daddio. Mr. Sugden appears to have written the words out as they appeared in the DT...whereas its likely that the transcriber of the Casebook version of the statement abbreviated that part of the sentence as one will ordinarily do when it comes to writing down fractions.

I agree with you that IF the GSG was really 3 to 4 inches high,then that would be an estimate. However,as usual, I am right, and the Sugden version is more likely to have been the exact way it was written.

Even the Casebook version is an approximation,Wick. It says "about 3/4 of an inch high". Some people can look at objects and estimate their size as my main man Halse did. Halse stayed there with the G while Hunt went a'huntin' for more policemen. Halse didn't have a tape measure,but his observations are the best of anyone's.

It wouldn't have been too fresh or noteworthy,Wick...since it rained that evening...if it had been on there long.

[Sam Flynn]

It wouldn't have been too fresh or noteworthy,Wick...since it rained that evening...if it had been on there long.

...and if the rain happened to have smacked into that particular patch of brick, How. As we've discussed previously, if the surface on which the graffito was written was in any way shaded from the rain (especially if it were "upwind" of it) then the chalk could have remained comparatively dry for hours on end.

[Howard Brown]

Dear Monty:

Sorry for the delay in responding to your comment:

The writings location near to the apron ensured the right and proper thing to do was to investigate it.-Monty Cristo

And indeed they did,brudda.

[perrymason]

Hello again,

The mentioning of the height of that dado to around 4 feet sounds to me like the height one would be if on one knee, or bent over. If it was an adult that wrote it, he would have almost had to be bent or kneeling. Has anyone considered that Jack didnt throw the section against a wall, that he instead knelt and placed it then wrote on the dado.

If that section did carry organs, it might be infused with some sense of meaning beyond its utility for the killer, or maybe just tossing it isnt really his style. Since it is the ONLY instance where we have a piece of evidence from a Ripper crime scene taken and then discarded elsewhere where it would be found.

I started a thread a long time ago called Singular Occurrances, The Double Event....and I can recall somewhere near 20 instances like the apron section where this night deviated from prior Ripper crimes, and the subsequent one. Included in that list was the fact that no other Ripper murder night included so much evidence that was provided by local Jews, is it really any surprise to anyone that the graffito concerned Jews also?

Since many of the Jews of that night were socialists, and some may well have met some police close up at rallys or marches like Bloody Sunday,..... did they just tell the truth and respect the law at Berner Street, or did they tell stories and/or manipulate witnesses?

What did they really care about Liz, or Jack for that matter, if they had been suspected as being the "men" that actually killed Liz, their club would be closed and likely many or all members would be questioned at length....the police were looking for an excuse with this club in particular. There are quotes police felt it was an Anarchists Club.

Yet, after a few hours and a site inspection, the notion it might be one of the members had faded away, and Jack replaced them as possible murderer. Why? Because the members convinced the Police that none of them were in the yard at the time,.....a claim that is addressed directly by the neighbours claims that there was often noise in the yard after a meeting, usually until past 1am, and men of low character were often in attendance.....which would make a lingering street whores behaviour a but more understandable. But they just said it was empty..... "Cause they were not the men that would be blamed for nuffin."

Best regards all.

[Howard Brown]

We sure did discuss that Sammy...and if the writing was on the jamb by the door leading to the cellar, it would not have lasted long considering all the Jewish people who lived in the Wentworth.

[Monty]

Dear Monty:

Sorry for the delay in responding to your comment:

The writings location near to the apron ensured the right and proper thing to do was to investigate it.-Monty Cristo

And indeed they did,brudda.

As they did the apron and envelope piece at the Chapman scene, The Burrell ticket at the Eddowes scene and the bonnet at Coles.

Nowt sinister in that.


And do we have evidence that the Dwelling was predominantly occupied by Jews?

Monty

[Natalie Severn]

And do we have evidence that the Dwelling was predominantly occupied by Jews?

Monty

Hi Monty!

Jerry White, in his book "Rothschild Buildings" points out that that dwellings were in the heart of Jewish Whitechapel and that they were built for poor but respectable Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe.
Best
Norma

[Monty]

Many thanks Norma,

I always though they were built as part of a regeneration plan for the area rather than specifically for the Jewish people.

I was wondering if census returns for later years (as they were only built a year or so prior to the murders) would show a predominantly Jewish dwelling.

Monty