Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The GSG. What Does It Mean??

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Dan Norder
    replied
    Originally posted by Ben View Post
    If the message was ripper-authored, I share the contemporary police view (which, admittedly, was not unaminous) that it was done to deflect suspicion onto the Jewish population
    Of course individual police views differed, but I don't think the police as any sort of group thought it was written to deflect suspicion onto the Jewish population, especially considering that widespread suspicion at the time was already centered on Jews. The line seems to be saying that the Jews aren't to blame, and Anderson, at least, thought it was written by a Jew trying to deflect suspicion away from the Jews.

    Edit: OK, I see now where you name the officials you refer to... That's teach me to load threads up and try to reply to them later without checking for new posts.
    Last edited by Dan Norder; 08-14-2008, 04:38 PM. Reason: update

    Leave a comment:


  • Ben
    replied
    Hi Mike,

    With due respect, who are the contemporary police sources that say the writer was deflecting blame onto the Jews?
    Th bloke at the top for one; Charles Warren stated in an October report that the message "was evidently written with the intention of inflaming the public mind against the Jews". Donald Swanson, in direct charge of the ripper investigation, believed that it was written "to throw the blame upon the Jews", while Henry Smith opined that the intent of the message was to "throw the police off the scent, to divert suspicion from the Gentiles and throw it upon the Jews", a belief he enforces in his later attack on Anderson.

    Hope this helps, and that all is well with you!

    Ben

    Leave a comment:


  • The Good Michael
    replied
    Ben,

    With due respect, who are the contemporary police sources that say the writer was deflecting blame onto the Jews? I've only heard the vague statements that it was erased to prevent possible violence, but not any details as to why violence might occur. This leads me to my opinion about the GSG, which is clear, but the possibility of someone writing as they thought a disgruntled Jew might, is a distinct possibility. I still say that the GSG must have been written prior to the murders, so any deflection would have had to have been planned out in advance... in my scenario of course.

    Cheers,

    Mike

    Leave a comment:


  • Ben
    replied
    Hi all,

    If the message was ripper-authored, I share the contemporary police view (which, admittedly, was not unaminous) that it was done to deflect suspicion onto the Jewish population, which had already become the scapegoated bunch by September 1888 thanks to "Leather Apron" and the anti-semitic undercurrent that existed in the district before then. Of course, he could have acheived this by dumping the apron where he did without bothering to scribe an accompanying message, but still...

    I believe there are other examples of Jew-implicating antics on the part of the killer, not because he was necessarily anti-semitic, but because it would have been churlish not to take easy advantage of that opportunity.

    Best regards,
    Ben

    Leave a comment:


  • Investigator
    replied
    mmm! – Some interesting rhetoric. Thought my last post would have thrown the cat among the pigeons, instead it was a duck for cover. Firstly, this is not a matter of religion, baiting or bashing, nor a revitalisation of the ritual Jewish sacrifice agenda. It is an enquiry into a cluster of murders that took place in a Jewish Diaspora. Stride beside a Jewish Socialist (Anarchist) club, Eddowes on the backdoor of the Great Synagogue, writing on the wall of a Jewish residence blaming them for unspecified doings and the grotesque letter to the bourgeoisie, Jewish Lusk. If this doesn’t raise any association of an issue among Jews other than an assumption of Gentile anti-Semitism there is a perceptual blind spot. Little wonder that the perennial nature of the GSG will come round again with the phases of the moon.
    A direct comparison between the requirements of the mezuzah and the GSG provides some solid ground from which to develop a case. Details derived from http://www.beingjewish.com/mitzvos

    • Any Jew, man or woman, who lives in an apartment or house is required to place Mezuzos on the doorposts of his or her home.
    • GSG = Presume absent on front entry, but would normally be required
    • A Mezuzah must contain in Hebrew, in a special alphabet two chapters: Deuteronomy 6:4-9, and Deuteronomy 11:13-21
    • GSG = No
    • Jewish Law says that it must be rolled and placed in a case.
    • GSG = No
    • The Mezuzah must be written on special, handmade parchment that must come from a kosher animal, such as a cow, or a goat.
    • GSG = No
    • The ink used in the writing must be black
    • GSG = No, it was white, but may have been a deliberate inversion
    • Only a holy person may write the Mezuzah, a scribe, fully trained in all the Laws of writing mezuzos, tefillin, and Torah Scrolls.
    • GSG = Unknown, probably not
    • The Law states that if a man does not believe even one word of the Torah, and he writes a Mezuzah, his writing is invalid, and what he has written must be buried.
    • GSG = Not known, but writing is invalid for reasons stated above.

    The failure to fulfil the above requirements of the mezuzah by the GSG indicates that the graffiti was not intended to replace the mezuzah since it is invalidated on the above requirements. On the other hand it does fulfil all other requirements of the mezuzah which indicates that the writing represents a supplemental message to those who follow the tenets of Judaism.

    • A Mezuzah must be handwritten
    • GSG = yes
    • If a mistake is made in writing, the entire Mezuzah is invalid, and ruined so has to be rewritten. It is forbidden to erase even one letter.
    • GSG = Yes. Mistake spelling “U” not erased, may have been a deliberate mistake
    • Jewish Law defines a door as having a ceiling and two doorposts, it must have a lintel. The Mezuzah should be placed within the doorframe, underneath the lintel. The placement does not need to be precise.
    • GSG = Yes
    • The doorway to a small room, hallway or leads to a staircase, needs a Mezuzah.
    • GSG = Yes
    • The Mezuzah scroll, in the case, should be placed on the right doorpost as you enter the room. The door at the entrance of the house, the right as you enter is always considered to be the right side.
    • GSG = Yes, the message is in the correct position for the mezuzah
    • Placed within the doorframe, not on the outside of the doorframe, and not on the inside of the room.
    • GSG = Yes
    • The Mezuzah should be placed at the bottom part of the top third of the doorpost. If the doorway is much higher than 78 or 90 inches or higher, affix the mezuzah shoulder height, even if this is lower than the upper third of the doorway.
    • GSG = Yes, was he a dwarf?

    • The Talmud says that a proper Mezuzah offers protection of the home. When we prepare to carry something into our home, we should stop and consider whether or not, by carrying it past the Mezuzah into the home it will cause shame.
    • GSG = The piece of blood smeared apron would cause shame

    I put it to you, that this would be evidence admissible in a court of law to substantiate a claim that the writer has an intimate knowledge of Jewish customs not obvious to most Gentiles and therefore is most probably Jewish. It is for the defence to produce evidence to refute or modify this interpretation. If this position can be consolidated, you may be ready to take another step in understanding the GSG.
    In terms of the bloodstained apron beneath the writing, consider this; what difference would it make if the writing was on the flagstones next to Eddowes body or if Eddowes body was in the Goulston Street doorway with the writing as placed?
    As a backdrop, has anyone thought that the GSG among other things may be an expression of the ideological warfare between Orthodox Judaism and Socialist Jews and that the Jewish factor is only the carrier? Another thread perhaps! Must go, the fish shop attic internet connection is ready to close catch up agin - oh groan!. All the best. DG

    Leave a comment:


  • Monty
    replied
    Guys,

    Think I posted this before but will do again.

    During my research for a joint article with Howard Brown, Stewart Evans kindly sent me a picture of the entrance with a cross upon it where he felt the writing was located.

    This location is based on Warrens report, which Stewart felt would be correct, as is the nature of such reports.

    I must admit that, personally, I favour this spot too. Given with the description and the reports of potential shoulder rubbing.

    Monty
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • Observer
    replied
    Hi Glenn

    Originally posted by Glenn Lauritz Andersson View Post
    Considering the environment and the location of the message, dismissing the idea is on the brink of stupidity.

    All the best
    Forgive me if I'm wrong Glenn but was it not you who wrote that there was no inkling of a link between the murders and the graffiti?

    Dismissing a link with the message and the murders, is also on the brink of insanity, considering two witnesses Mrs Long, and Lawende had implicated a Jew.
    all the best

    Observer
    Last edited by Observer; 08-14-2008, 02:24 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Glenn Lauritz Andersson
    replied
    Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
    I am at a loss as how the message can be conceived as someone complaining about a Jewish tradesman !!!
    And I am at loss how anyone can dismiss it, when it was found in the middle of Jewish vendor territory. Even today Wentworth Street (especially the corner Wentworth Street-Goulston Street) is the mecca of traders, hawkers and vendors and at day time the streets in the vicinity is packed with stalls, as it was in 1888.

    The meaning of the message makes perfect sense in such a context if it was written by a customer who had bought something from a Jewish hawker and felt unsatidfied with the purchase or robbed of his money.

    Considering the environment and the location of the message, dismissing the idea is on the brink of stupidity.

    All the best

    Leave a comment:


  • c.d.
    replied
    Originally posted by The Good Michael View Post
    CD,
    If the Ripper wrote it, my belief is that he did it before he killed.

    Cheers,

    Mike
    Hi Mike,

    Are you saying that he wrote the message first and then dropped the apron there later? I have to admit that I never thought of that. I will have to mull it over.

    c.d.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Good Michael
    replied
    CD,
    If the Ripper wrote it, my belief is that he did it before he killed.

    Cheers,

    Mike

    Leave a comment:


  • Fisherman
    replied
    C.d. writes:
    "Just so I understand, he couldn't have used white chalk on white bricks, correct?"

    Correct, c.d.

    The best!
    Fisherman

    Leave a comment:


  • c.d.
    replied
    I forgot to add that if Jack did write the GSG, he did so under poor lighting conditions and with his heart beating (I have to imagine) like a son of a bitch. Yet, he still managed the herculean task of having the writing come out straight and legible.

    c.d.

    Leave a comment:


  • c.d.
    replied
    If the GSG was premeditated, I would think that sending a piece of the victim's clothing or one of her possessions to the newspaper or the police would have seemed a likely course and one that would have had a tremendous impact. If the GSG was not premeditated, Jack chose to communicate at the worst possible time not having done so before or after and he just happened to have some chalk in his pocket. When his all important message was erased he simply said "ah gee, I wish they hadn't done that and let it go at that.

    c.d.

    Leave a comment:


  • c.d.
    replied
    Ok. Just so I understand, he couldn't have used white chalk on white bricks, correct?

    c.d.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fisherman
    replied
    Hi c.d!

    Painted white, that΄s what I mean. Jerryd posted it on the page before this:
    "A juror - How did you account for its being recent? - Because it seemed fresh, and if it had been long written it would have been rubbed by people passing. It was written on the black brick in good schoolboy's handwriting. The capitals would be under an inch high, and italics in proportion. The bricks are painted black up to about four feet high, like a dado, and above that are white."

    Like I said, I was always under the impression that it was at shoulder height, so I was amazed to read this, but there you are!

    All the best, c.d!
    Fisherman

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X