The GSG. What Does It Mean??

[c.d.]

Hi Fisherman,

I am not sure what you mean by whitewashed.

c.d.

[Fisherman]

"Jews were in the firing line as possible culprits for the murders, there can be no doubt about that, so I can not for the life of me think why anyone would state that the message had no links with the Jack the ripper series of murders."

Whoaa, Observer; hold your horses! We know nothing of Jack´s religious convictions - if he had any - just as we do not know whether he had payed any attention to the ongoing discussion on the Jews. And the message in itself can be interpreted as pro-jewish, jew-despising as well as unbiased in the question. Of course the message could be unrelated to the murders.

C.d!
You write: "Crouching down to do so would seem natural and if he then proceeded to write the message, that might explain the heighth at which it was written."

My understanding was that the wall was whitewashed above the four-foot level. Then that would explain the necessity of stooping down.
Anyway, it sure does not explain the notion that it could have been rubbed away since it was "shoulder-height" Did anybody ask the midgets living there what they thought about it all??

All the best,

Fisherman

[c.d.]

Hi Observer,

If Jack wrote the message it must have been of some importance to him since he took a chance (even if it was a small one) in stopping to write the message. But if the message was intended for the public, what happened? The message got erased. Putting myself in Jack's shoes, I would have then written a message in blood in Mary's apartment as if to say don't you ever do that to me again. Even if Jack didn't kill Mary, there were still other opportunities to get his message out to the public. Had the message been solely intended for the police, I think its content would have been much different.

c.d.

[Observer]

Hi David

Thanks, surely it's sensible to keep an open mind regarding whether the killer
used the apron section in order to bookmark the graffiti as his handy work.

Sure, if you or I, Sam or Glenn ,or anyone for that matter were in the killers shoes, we would in all probability be more thorough in ensuring that the police had no reason to doubt that the two were linked. But were not dealing with an ordinary individual are we? Likewise we are asked, surely the killer would have written the message more clearly in plain English, but again were not dealing with an ordinary person here, as I said it could well be that the killer was certain the police would know exactly what he meant.

Jews were in the firing line as possible culprits for the murders, there can be no doubt about that, so I can not for the life of me think why anyone would state that the message had no links with the Jack the ripper series of murders.

all the best

Observer

[c.d.]

What Dan said about the heighth of the message is very interesting and makes sense. I had always assumed that it was at eye level. I am wondering if the apron had pockets. If Jack threw it on the ground, he might have remembered the pockets and decided to go through them. Crouching down to do so would seem natural and if he then proceeded to write the message, that might explain the heighth at which it was written. Just a thought.

c.d.

[Rosey O'Ryan]

Hi Fish,What would have been so difficult in writing a nice, big message inside the passageway where the apron was found? What would have been so difficult with writing the message on the floor of the passageway, and placing the apron in the middle of the nice, big letters? Why - with those two options - chuck the apron into the passageway and write a small message halfway up a door-post? It just doesn't connect.

Hi Sam,
Would it make any difference if Jack had his Juwes erect a neon-come-on-type sign?
Subtlety may be the key?
Rosey :-)

[Dan Norder]

There are conflicting reports on where the graffito was located, but, as Jerry pointed out earlier, there's inquest testimony from someone who would have been in a position to know that it was less than four feet off the ground. That'd be rough to do for even a man of average height at the time (about four inches shorter than the current average) without crouching down. And if the piece of apron was directly underneath it there by the door jamb, the odds that it was an accidental placement are much less than just some graffiti at normal height on a wall with a piece of apron found somewhere in the near vicinity.

[DVV]

Hi Observer and Jon Guy,
what a relief to read such sensible and simple thoughts, every so often...

Amitiés,
David

[Jon Guy]

It might have been considered a cert in the killers mind that the two would be linked.

Exactly, Observer.

I am at a loss as how the message can be conceived as someone complaining about a Jewish tradesman !!!

We should consider the growing anti-semitism that was felt amongst the locals in Spitalfields following the Chapman murder. the message was written for the same reason that Warren had it removed.

Why the need to sign it , when the womans apron was deposited beneath it ?

[Fisherman]

Sam Flynn asks:

"What would have been so difficult in writing a nice, big message inside the passageway where the apron was found? What would have been so difficult with writing the message on the floor of the passageway, and placing the apron in the middle of the nice, big letters? Why - with those two options - chuck the apron into the passageway and write a small message halfway up a door-post? It just doesn't connect."

Sam, I think you already know that I am in no way convinced that the GSG was written by the Ripper.
Then again, you would also know by now that I am not one to rule out any possibility, for the very simple reason that such things always end up with you taking the wrong turn at some crossway. It may take time, you may be a lucky guesser, but sooner or later that is what is going to happen.

In the GSG case, I readily recognize that the circumstances speak very much in favour for a "no connection" verdict. The very fact that you yourself are promoting that wiew is telling, since you are one of the most skilled and knowledgeable researchers around. Moreover, I myself have argued on another thread some months back that the guy had a knife - if he really wanted to make sure about things, he could have nailed the message to a wooden door or something with that knife of his. Of course he could have been clearer, if the GSG was his work.

That said, I don´t believe that we can judge the Rippers mindset on it all. Like Observer says, maybe he thought that what he was doing was quite enough - and in some sense we know that it was. Had it not been, then we would not have been discussing the matter right now, would we?

A final point; you say that it was a strange thing to do, if he wanted us to make the connection, to write on the wall adjoining the street, and then throw the apron inside the doorway, instead of neatly placing it directly under the writing.
But the only immobile thing here is the writing, is it not? Maybe the apron piece WAS originally placed directly under the writing, and kicked inside the doorway by somebody passing by. Maybe it was dragged into the doorway by a rat, cat or dog, who did not want to share the find with other rats, cats or dogs.

Whichever way it went down, rats or not, I think that if we really need to find an interpretation of the GSG that works, I would opt for a less philosophical and more practical approach.
To begin with, it is not all that easy to accept that the killer really would take the time to start scribbling messages during his getaway. But if he really did do just that, it is an even further stretch to imagine him playing games or hinting at Biblical passages or something along those lines.

The best, Sam!

Fisherman

[jerryd]

Hi Sam,

Here's what I read the record to say.

A juror - How did you account for its being recent? - Because it seemed fresh, and if it had been long written it would have been rubbed by people passing. It was written on the black brick in good schoolboy's handwriting. The capitals would be under an inch high, and italics in proportion. The bricks are painted black up to about four feet high, like a dado, and above that are white.

I am 6 feet tall. Four feet comes to about the center of my belly.(yes, i actually measured it. ) If it was written on the black portion, the top line would have been written at about 4 feet if the author started at the extreme top. The other lines would obviously be lower than that. That would make it a bit awkward to write without slouching or even crouching on the ground for someone of average height.

I do agree that either way, standing or crouching, if seen scribbling on a wall at the wee hours, you need to have a good explanation of what you are doing. And it doesn't help me to come to any certainty that the killer did or did not write it.

Hope all is well Sam!

jd

It's on record as being "at shoulder height", Mike.

Besides - crouching in front of a door-jamb is almost as conspicious as standing up in the doorway. Now, crouching in a recessed passageway to write on the wall is different - especially if you've dumped an apron there that you want to link to the writing. 'Tis pity that's not what happened.

At who's shoulder did we measure? If it was Herve Villechais, that would be 3 ft.

I kid....I kid, because I love. Me and Krusty the Clown.

Cheers amigo.

[Sam Flynn]

Thanks for that image Sam, you do make some good ones. But I thought the actual height was in the 4 foot range...I cant recall specifics....but you think it was higher than that?

It's on record as being "at shoulder height", Mike.

Besides - crouching in front of a door-jamb is almost as conspicious as standing up in the doorway. Now, crouching in a recessed passageway to write on the wall is different - especially if you've dumped an apron there that you want to link to the writing. 'Tis pity that's not what happened.

It wasn't, Mike. The message was written at shoulder height - precisely where a man would have written it whilst standing up. A rather conspicuous position in which to be agonising over small, neat handwriting...

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Thanks for that image Sam, you do make some good ones. But I thought the actual height was in the 4 foot range...I cant recall specifics....but you think it was higher than that?

All the best Sam

[Sam Flynn]

Sam,

Lest we not forget the height it was written at. Not at eye level....for a standing man, but perhaps for one crouched by an apron section

It wasn't, Mike. The message was written at shoulder height - precisely where a man would have written it whilst standing up. A rather conspicuous position in which to be agonising over small, neat handwriting...