The GSG. What Does It Mean??

[perrymason]

Hi Michael-
As to that phrase it hails from my teaching days when some 'Herbert' would be up to no good and I'd say 'What are you doing?' ....he would then say....in a Pompey accent 'Oi aint doing nuffink Miss'...Suspect guilty as charged! (My sardonic reply was always...'If you aint doing nuffink you must be doing somefink!'
LOL... is pronounced as a word these days though Tom!!! For better or worse! and is in common (very!) as is defo for definately etc etc etc
And of course...as Ally will back me up on the best source of spelling has to be http://icanhascheezburger.com/

Suz x

Hi Suz,

I was engaged at one time to a lovely British Lass...actually a transplanted Kiwi....and I thought "Pelli(e)ck" was the going word...is Herbert along those lines, or has "Pellick", or "Pelleck", or "Pellik", or "Pillek"...never knew the actual spelling... ceased to be de rigeur for describing a bonehead?

All the best.

[Tom_Wescott]

I'm sorry, Ally, I didn't catch that. I was too busy reading a newspaper from 1888 where they're talking about their local MP. Those Victorians and their crazy acronyms. Whatever could MP mean? Or SOS? And what the Ripper letter mean by calling constables on patrol by 'COPS'? I just don't get it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Suzi]

Hi Michael-
An 'Erbert' is a phrase for a well exactly as you describe a little **** ....otherwise known as a 'bottom feeder' or in extreme cases a 'space cadet' !! Bed time here!

Suzi x

[Ally]

Yeah that's okay Tom, slide away from the whole you thinking the ancient Romans had a "common language" with us. I will be chortling for a while, but to address your point.

I have already said that Victorians had acronyms. There is a difference between it being in existence and being in common usage that the man on the street would think to go to and use in a communication. MP and all that came from ORGANIZATIONS. They created a shorthand and it trickled down to the people and it was relatively rare. If you want to look at when INDIVIDUALS began free associating and creating acronyms for communication it is really only in modern times with the advent of text speak and internent messaging with communications like IMHO, etc. A victorian was not going to think of the internation working mens....as IWMES even if Jack happened to know the entire title of the club and I sincerely doubt they had a big ole sign outside advertising the name, although they might have. Even the members called it by shorthand -International Working men's club- so why would Jack have known the full name with familiarity enough to not only use it, but shorthand it?

[Suzi]

Good point Ally-
In discussion they probably just said 'Coming down the Club' in whatever language and probably added 'Bring your *box'-* common slang to this day for a melodeon/concertina or accordian - or whatever- meaning their respective musical instrument-' cos Im positive they had instruments there....in fact I seem to remember a newspaper report at some point mentioning instrument/s on the make shift 'stage' in the upstairs room.

I can't imagine a 'political' meeting not ending with a good 'craich' of some sort!

BRB (No spoons allowed though!)

Suzi x

[Stephen Thomas]

I was engaged at one time to a lovely British Lass...actually a transplanted Kiwi....and I thought "Pelli(e)ck" was the going word...is Herbert along those lines, or has "Pellick", or "Pelleck", or "Pellik", or "Pillek"...never knew the actual spelling... ceased to be de rigeur for describing a bonehead?

Hi Michael

It's spelled 'pillock' and pronounced 'pillek'. And still in very common use in Britain. When someone does something really stupid we say 'What a pillock'. The word 'bonehead' isn't used over here at all.

[Sam Flynn]

Sam, in all seriousness, why do you feel that JTR MUST be direct, that he might not have enjoyed funny subtle little games?

Because the idea that he did so seems to be a by-product of the legend that grew up around him, and which has grown more pervasive over time. The legend of "Jack-the-Joker's" roots may be traced to the Dear Boss letter and the Saucy Jacky postcard, neither of which was publicised until after the "Double Event". If, as seems very likely, neither was penned by the killer, then we are confronted with a "Joking Jack" whose popular persona was yet to be invented.

[paul emmett]

Because the idea that he did so[enjoyed subtle little games]seems to be a by-product of the legend that grew up around him, and which has grown more pervasive over time. The legend of "Jack-the-Joker's" roots may be traced to the Dear Boss letter and the Saucy Jacky postcard,

I am sure you are right: the postcad and letter are playful, and, to me, subtle, as is the GSG. And, hence, the legend. But "legend" does not necessarily mean spurious. I find Nichols's stable and Stride's cachous playful and subtle. But I know we disagree on this too, as we do on "Heartless," which to me gives still more examples of funny little games. And, ultimately, I feel that if the legend comes from two corespondences, but a closer look at the larger picture gives other instances of playful and subtle, then that is another reason that the letters might be legit. They fit the pattern.

[Supe]

Tom,

Cop as "Constable on Patrol" is a good example of folk etymology, similar to tip deriving from "to insure proimptness"--and like most folk etymology it just ain't true. Cop, short for copper, meant to grab or catch and is derived from the Dutch kapen that has its roots in the Latin capuo, a small trader.

And SOS could hardly have had an LVP vogue since it was a 20th C creation for radio-telegraph use. It means nothing but in telegraphic code . . . - - - . . . was easily sent and received. And again, the folklore invention it stood for "save our souls" is just that--invention.

Don.

[The Grave Maurice]

I wish I had said that. Excellent observation, Donald.

[Howard Brown]

Without getting too deep in the hoopla over this ridiculous attempt to translate the GSG into an "alternative ripperological" interpretation....amazing how Wescott now sounds like Radka and D.Ogilvie Souden has to correct Wescott....it must be true that some of us become the thing we hate,eh,Wescott? What next? Kosminski,the unstable hairdresser... an actual anarchist?

Pay attention.....

1. There is no translating the GSG into a modern interpretation.
2. There is no satisfactory translation of the GSG into a contemporaneous and intelligible message which can be used in an attempt to "read" the mind of the author. Its an exercise in mental masturbation by anyone who attempts it.
3. The ONLY thing we could do is associate the provenance of the message ( Not a graffiti...too small...too neat...too concise in blaming the Juden for something ) to the events of that evening by its physical condition,not its syntax "problems"....and thats it.
4. Halse's testimony gets the proverbial boot from Evans,Rumbelow,W-E,Fido and they ALL overlook that Halse claimed it was essentially a fresh message written on a rainy night.... and if where some of these erudites believe it was placed...would not have been as distinguishable as Halse...a police officer at the scene of the crime....says it was. Who are they to deny its provenance being 100 years removed from the scene and to dismiss Halse?
5. The odds are that considering its size ( 3/4 inch capital letters...and written in a legible and steady technique...with only one word misread by Long) and the conditions ( rainy night on Wentworth Street...) demonstrate that JTR probably wrote it.
6. The argument that because this message was "found" and near the apron on Met turf may be the best argument for those who object to its authenticity. Could City police been upset at the heavy-handedness of Warren? Likely,if not definitely. Halse was as serious as a heart attack at the Inquest.
7. Because "other" graffiti...never produced,nor was it possible to produce, for examination as to their content ...and they never will be.... and are alleged to have been present in the "area" means nothing in relation to the message on that particular edifice.

[Stewart P Evans]

Odd Opinions?

4. Halse's testimony gets the proverbial boot from Evans,Rumbelow,W-E,Fido and they ALL overlook that Halse claimed it was essentially a fresh message written on a rainy night.... and if where some of these erudites believe it was placed...would not have been as distinguishable as Halse...a police officer at the scene of the crime....says it was. Who are they to deny its provenance being 100 years removed from the scene and to dismiss Halse?

The fact of the matter here is that we can only give our opinion as to whether the wall writing was the work of the killer or not. I certainly have not 'overlooked that Halse claimed it was essentially a fresh message' - for goodness sake, his evidence is in my books.

Halse felt it was fresh but this, surely, proves nothing with regard to who wrote it. First it was sheltered from the rain as it was not on an outer wall, plus it would still look fresh if it had been written within the previous 24 hours anyway. Add to this the fact that PC Long, 'a police officer at the scene' states, quite honestly in my opinion, "I could not say whether they were recently written." Halse, who obviously had a City Police bias here, stated, "The writing had the appearance of being recently written", whatever that may be supposed to be based upon.

Any authority writing about these murders is expected by the reader to give their opinion on such things, and this is valid, otherwise all we would write is what was recorded with no opinion or interpretation placed on it. The reader does not, like Mr. Brown, have to agree with that opinion. But when Mr. Brown writes, "Who are they to deny its provenance being 100 years removed from the scene and to dismiss Halse?" what exactly does he mean? That we should accept, without question, everything that was stated at the time? Also, I might draw attention to some of Mr. Brown's own odd, often unfounded, opinions that he has broadcast widely in the past.

[Monty]

Guys,

I think acromyns are more a US thing than European.

As for freshness, the age old line, used many, many times on casebook, and never really answered......

How fresh is fresh?

Monty

[Stewart P Evans]

No Definitive Answer

6. The argument that because this message was "found" and near the apron on Met turf may be the best argument for those who object to its authenticity.

There is the argument that this message is ambiguous, cryptic and far from obvious in meaning. If the wall writer was making claim to being the murderer (by leaving the piece of apron there, which after all could have been missed anyway) then why not leave an obvious message such as "Another one in Mitre Square the Jews are not the men to be blamed for these murders" or similar? But such arguments can go on and on and prove nothing. There is no definitive answer. Another objection is that we have a murderer fleeing the scene of his crime, with a whistle being blown and police patrols on the streets, yet he stops to write a cryptic message in very small writing, in almost pitch darkness (it's difficult to imagine how he would have had enough light to write in such a small hand in a shadowed area).

[Stewart P Evans]

Cop

Cop, short for copper, meant to grab or catch and is derived from the Dutch kapen that has its roots in the Latin capuo, a small trader.
Don.

Don, the Victorian dictionary of slang gives quite a comprehensive definition of 'Cop' -

Cop. A policeman. As verb. 1. To seize, steal, snatch, take an unfair advantage in a bet or bargain. [Cop has been associated with the root of the Latin cap-io, to seize, to snatch; also with the Gipsy kap or cop=to take; Scotch kep; and Gallic ceapan. Probably, however, its true radix is to be found in the Hebrew cop= a hand or palm. Low-class Jews employ the term, and understand it to refer to the act of snatching.] Cop like Chuck (q.v.) is a sort of general utility verb... 2. To arrest, imprison, betray, ensnare...