The GSG. What Does It Mean??

[East End Girl]

I think it was written by a semi literate gentile.

Best regards.

Maybe the message was written by a literate Jew who was fed up with being blamed for everything? The double negative could imply this

[perrymason]

Maybe the message was written by a literate Jew who was fed up with being blamed for everything? The double negative could imply this

Hi EEG, Welcome to the Jungle.

The spelling is what I think rules out a literate Jew, a use of the spelling "Juwes" or "Juewes" in any Hebraic writing or teachings was vehemently denied by a prominent Rabbi. I think the double negative is consistent with sarcasm myself.

A semi literate Jew might use it....but I would thing if not in Hebrew, the word Jew or Jewish would have been on signage all around the prominently Immigrant Jew areas.

Ally...I know what you think of one suggestion, any comments on mine?

Best regards.

[Monty]

Oh the ambiguity!

There are so many translations, so little evidence.

Monty.

[East End Girl]

Hi EEG, Welcome to the Jungle.

The spelling is what I think rules out a literate Jew, a use of the spelling "Juwes" or "Juewes" in any Hebraic writing or teachings was vehemently denied by a prominent Rabbi. I think the double negative is consistent with sarcasm myself.

A semi literate Jew might use it....but I would thing if not in Hebrew, the word Jew or Jewish would have been on signage all around the prominently Immigrant Jew areas.

Best regards.

I take your point and concede. And thank you for the welcome.

However, as I understand it, JTR was fast and didn't (seemingly) hang around. Would he have placed himself with a vital bit of evidence scrawling on a wall? I doubt this very much.

Very new to this detective "game" but have had a ball over the last couple of days exploring this site and reading everything there is to read on it.

[Tom_Wescott]

Perry,

You're twisting my words and you know it. Code is code. I'm suggesting the author was implicit in its meaning.

Ally,

The same is true with the 'Juwes' idea, which makes less sense than what I'm suggesting.

Fisherman,

Why didn't he write out INTERNATIONAL WORKING MEN'S EDUCATIONAL SOCIETY? You have to ask that?

The fact is, the word 'JEW' appeared in a million doorways and windows throughout the district, including on that very street. The Jewish Baths were across the street from the Wentworth Buildings. Whoever was able to write out this sentence in a 'good schoolboy hand' knew how to spell 'Jews'. But if 'Jews' was not his intention, we have to ask ourselves what was. I feel my theory is the best, if not only, viable and logical alternative to the officially endorsed one.

Again, we have Warren to thank for there even being a debate on this.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Ben]

Hi Tom,

Whoever was able to write out this sentence in a 'good schoolboy hand' knew how to spell 'Jews'.

It's not unusual for people with legible handwriting to be atrocious at spelling, especially if the extent of their education was a local school for a brief period. Even simple words that appear everywhere are susceptible to being mangled very badly.

All the best,
Ben

[Tom_Wescott]

Some words I would agree with you, but JEWS to JUWES? That would be highly irregular. A possibility, sure, but an outside one.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[perrymason]

Perry,

Again, we have Warren to thank for there even being a debate on this.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Ar least I 100 % agree with that line.

Unbelievable treatment of potential evidence from a murderer...or 'the" murderer.

The question you asked about his speed and dawdling EEG...do you mind EEG?.....I think that calls into play for one the need or desire to communicate...which is one of the reasons Monty tries to stay ambiguous here..how important was this to him?

Well if he did leave the apron and the writing, it seems it was important enough to take the time,...therefore it may be very important. The flip side is that he may have dropped the used apron and never noticed the writing himself.

For me the juxtaposition is relevant...in order to access the apron piece, you needed to bend down to pick it up. Or bend over. Making the writing on the dado that much easier to notice, based on its height from the ground.

Best regards.

[Ally]

Actually the idea that it was IWMES is more nonsensical than Juwes even if one accepts the idea that the GSG was a message from JtR. To believe JtR decided to go with an acronym to further the confusion is a ludicrous presumption based on an assumption.

And juwes is a realistic mispelling of jews for people who are prone to make phonological errors when attempting to decode how a word is spelled. I deal with emergent readers on a daily basis and vowel misidentification is the most common error.

[Tom_Wescott]

To believe JtR decided to go with an acronym to further the confusion is a ludicrous presumption based on an assumption.

Not at all. In his mind there would have been no confusion. It's like how a Jennifer Pegg post will make sense to her but no one else. I'm not meaning to pick on the Peggster, but that's the best example I can think of that we can all relate to. In the case of the GSG, there's nothing at all confusing about 'THE IWMES ARE THE MEN WHO WILL NOT BE BLAMED FOR NOTHING'. But it makes less sense if we make IWMES into JUWES and virtually no sense if we assume it was totally unrelated to the apron and the murders. In any event, JEWS and IWMES mean the exact same thing in this case and I imagine the Ripper's motivation was the same - taking credit for the unmutilated victim.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Sam Flynn]

For me the juxtaposition is relevant...in order to access the apron piece, you needed to bend down to pick it up. Or bend over. Making the writing on the dado that much easier to notice, based on its height from the ground.

I'd find that more indicative of the height at which the writer felt comfortable in writing on the vertical surface, Mike.

The writing was, by accounts, in a comparatively neat hand. Given that it was also at shoulder height, then it sounds as if it was in precisely the "comfort zone" one would expect for someone of average height writing whilst in a standing position.

If there is any significance to be read into the graffito's position, it may be in that it could be argued that it would have been much lower down the wall (and slightly less "good and round" as a result) if it had been written by someone wishing to make a definite connection to the apron on the floor.

[Ally]

Or as has already been pointed out, he could have just said "I killed 2 tonight" and not gone with an acronym, which would have made little to no sense sense since acronyms as common substitutions didn't come into play until the mid-20th century. So saying it would have made sense to him means you think he had the same mindset as you do who are accustomed to seeing acronyms on a daily basis. The same is not true of a Victorian man.

[Fisherman]

Tom Wescott writes:

"I feel my theory is the best, if not only, viable and logical alternative to the officially endorsed one."

Why so modest??

"Why didn't he write out INTERNATIONAL WORKING MEN'S EDUCATIONAL SOCIETY? You have to ask that?"

No. I could just as well have asked why did he not write "I killed both" or "I don´t like jews" or something - anything - like that. Or he could have used capital lettering. Or quotation marks. Or written "the jewish club". Or ... well, the options are innumerable, if he really shot for clarity.

The best,
Fisherman

[paul emmett]

I don't think that JTR, who I believe chalked the graffito, was necessarily into directness. The last part of the message with its double negatives isn't direct, so why would the first part, with "misspelling" or initials, have to be?
If they can't figure it out, he can see himself as way too clever for them.

[Fisherman]

Sam Flynn writes:
"If there is any significance to be read into the graffito's position, it may be in that it could be argued that it would have been much lower down the wall (and slightly less "good and round" as a result) if it had been written by someone wishing to make a definite connection to the apron on the floor."

Yes! Spot on, Sam!
There would have been a thousand possibilities to ensure that the connection was made - and yet, he failed to take any one of them. He also left the apron lying on the ground, with blood and faeces on it apparently, something that could have meant that any stray dog could have picked it up and left with it.
If I was to do what some people seem to believe that Jack tried to do, I would have nailed that rag to a door with my knife, and I would have written "Two whores killed tonight!" in large letters on the same door.

Just as Warren could have saved us this discussion, so could Jack - had it been him. And had he wanted to.

The best!
Fisherman