Time-gap between Eddowes murder and Goulston Graffito

[Sam Flynn]

I thought this pic of a Stewart beside the doorway might help with scale.

Well, Jon, Stewart invariably helps put things in perspective

I wonder if the white wall is painted up to roughly the same height as the black dado was a hundred years ago?

My impression has always been that it was.

[Bridewell]

If chalked graffiti was such a problem at that time, you have to question the wisdom of black-painted walls. Rather asking for trouble I would have thought?

[Wickerman]

Possibly only by swaying drunks (Only half-joking.)

The doorway wasn't all that narrow, but the passage would have been slightly narrower, and more susceptible to "shoulder-rub" as one approached, and mounted, the stairs. Oh, God...

Now my head hurts!

I hope this turns out readable. It is the same doorway updated in our times.



Just for scale, and by the way, this is not a swaying drunk
This was kindly provided by Stewart Evans, before selfies became popular.

I thought this pic of a Stewart beside the doorway might help with scale.
I wonder if the white wall is painted up to roughly the same height as the black dado was a hundred years ago?

[Monty]

Posting short sentences is actually frustrating.

With Stride's death (minus Shwartz). We have Joseph Lave in Dutfield's Lane at 12.40am and saw nothing but also said it was to dark and he had to feel along the wall to get to the door.

We have Constable William Smith at 12.30am seeing a couple in Berner St who he later felt certain was Stride. I stress after the event, he thought he saw a flower on the woman's jacket,

James Brown saw a couple matching closely to who Smith saw at 12.45 am. Heights and clothes very similar. The woman spoke without an accent so was not Stride.

William Marshall thought he saw Stride at 11.45am, so where was Stride really?

So without Swhartz there is no defining timeline for Strides death, if he saw her or was even there.

The point is if the question of when Stride was killed is open to debate, then the time JtR had to killing Eddowes could be significantly longer. Making the wall markings easier to do, there is a flow on effect.

Yet discussions on heights of a non defined human bumpng a wall is being hotly argued as if it actually matters.

Two sentences.

PC Smith recognised Stride as she lay in the yard.

And according to some accounts, Stride had no accent. Considering she had lived in London for around 20 years, that isn't surprising.

Monty

[Fisherman]

G'day Sam




So are you saying a short person brushed against it with their head?

Actually, nobody seems to have brushed against the writing - Arnold only speculated that this was a risk, given it´s placing on a jamb people coming up from the south would turn on their way into the house.

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Possibly only by swaying drunks (Only half-joking.)

The doorway wasn't all that narrow, but the passage would have been slightly narrower, and more susceptible to "shoulder-rub" as one approached, and mounted, the stairs. Oh, God...

Now my head hurts!

Yep, the passage WAS narrower - but I think that Arnold was reasoning that people coming up Goulston Street from the south and making a right turn into the doorway would be the ones risking to shoulder-rub the writing. He said that "people passing in and out of the building" were the ones who would do the rubbing, and that fits eminently with the passage-point that the jamb represented.

The best,
Fisherman

[GUT]

G'day Sam

Now my head hurts!

So are you saying a short person brushed against it with their head?

[Sam Flynn]

Why couldn't it be brushed against if it was on the jamb?

Possibly only by swaying drunks (Only half-joking.)

The doorway wasn't all that narrow, but the passage would have been slightly narrower, and more susceptible to "shoulder-rub" as one approached, and mounted, the stairs. Oh, God...

Now my head hurts!

[Sam Flynn]

Sam,

I don't see around 3:00 being the time, it doesn't make any sense. He said it was common knowledge a murder took place.

Long's testimony is reasonably clear on this. He found out about the (Mitre Square) murder just before he took the apron to the Police Station. That would make it about 3AM, and it's reasonable to assume he found out from the PC he put in charge of the "stairs".

[Fisherman]

Somehow, post 1382 managaed to get in before my post 1383, that was first published as 1382. Then I edited it, and suddenly there was another post 1382...?

Anyways, sorry to seemingly repeat myself, Sunbury. And if you think that there may be relevance in Stride´s TOD for when the GSG was written and by whom, then that material DOES of course belong to this thread.

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Posting short sentences is actually frustrating.

With Stride's death (minus Shwartz). We have Joseph Lave in Dutfield's Lane at 12.40am and saw nothing but also said it was to dark and he had to feel along the wall to get to the door.

We have Constable William Smith at 12.30am seeing a couple in Berner St who he later felt certain was Stride. I stress after the event, he thought he saw a flower on the woman's jacket,

James Brown saw a couple matching closely to who Smith saw at 12.45 am. Heights and clothes very similar. The woman spoke without an accent so was not Stride.

William Marshall thought he saw Stride at 11.45am, so where was Stride really?

So without Swhartz there is no defining timeline for Strides death, if he saw her or was even there.

The point is if the question of when Stride was killed is open to debate, then the time JtR had to killing Eddowes could be significantly longer. Making the wall markings easier to do, there is a flow on effect.

Yet discussions on heights of a non defined human bumpng a wall is being hotly argued as if it actually matters.

Once again, this is not material for an Eddowes thread, but instead for a Stride ditto. No matter if Stride was killed at 12.45 or 1 AM, the killer had plenty of time to seek out both Mitre Square and Goulston Street. It is not a question of any pressed schedule.

If you do not see any relevance in discussing the GSG, the bloodied rag and what was said about these things, then do not participate. But you need to allow for others who DO see that relevance to carry on the discussion.

All the best,
Fisherman

[Sunbury]

I think you may want to discuss this on a Stride thread. And I think you will find there that there are those who say 12.45 is the better suggestion whereas others will opt for 1 AM.

And then you can leave us nincompoops to discuss uninteresting matters like shoulders, chalk and rags here.

The best,
Fisherman

The posts jumped, my next point was the timeline does flow onto Eddowes and everything else.

Yes I will leave the talks of midgets on stilts or tall men stooped over to those fascinated by such things.

But thank you for your reply Fisherman

[Sunbury]

Posting short sentences is actually frustrating.

With Stride's death (minus Shwartz). We have Joseph Lave in Dutfield's Lane at 12.40am and saw nothing but also said it was to dark and he had to feel along the wall to get to the door.

We have Constable William Smith at 12.30am seeing a couple in Berner St who he later felt certain was Stride. I stress after the event, he thought he saw a flower on the woman's jacket,

James Brown saw a couple matching closely to who Smith saw at 12.45 am. Heights and clothes very similar. The woman spoke without an accent so was not Stride.

William Marshall thought he saw Stride at 11.45am, so where was Stride really?

So without Swhartz there is no defining timeline for Strides death, if he saw her or was even there.

The point is if the question of when Stride was killed is open to debate, then the time JtR had to killing Eddowes could be significantly longer. Making the wall markings easier to do, there is a flow on effect.

Yet discussions on heights of a non defined human bumpng a wall is being hotly argued as if it actually matters.

[Fisherman]

I do have a question on the time gap between Eddowes and Stride though.

If we ignore Schwartz evidence for Mortimers, i.e. someone who saw nothing out of the ordinary vs someone who casts himself as "the victim". Who is to say Stride was killed around 1am? That was when she was discovered.

I would much rather discuss that and a "someone of any height" may or may not brush their shoulder of a wall.

I think you may want to discuss this on a Stride thread. And I think you will find there that there are those who say 12.45 is the better suggestion whereas others will opt for 1 AM.

And then you can leave us nincompoops to discuss uninteresting matters like shoulders, chalk and rags here.

The best,
Fisherman

[Sunbury]

I do have a question on the time gap between Eddowes and Stride though.

If we ignore Schwartz evidence for Mortimers, i.e. someone who saw nothing out of the ordinary vs someone who casts himself as "the victim". Who is to say Stride was killed around 1am? That was when she was discovered.

I would much rather discuss that and a "someone of any height" may or may not brush their shoulder of a wall.