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  • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
    Hi fish
    What does lech do after dropping off the apron in Goulston street? The organs are still at pickfords. Does he go back now to retrieve them?
    What does he do after dropping the apron piece off?

    He goes home, Abby.

    Look, what I am suggesting is a functioning line of behaviour on account of Charles Lechmere, if he was the killer. And if he was, it would seem he killed en route to work (something I know you are having trouble with, but there you are). And much as nothing was taken away from Nichols - as far as we know! - we do know that Chapman lost parts of her reproduction organs. If he killed her on his way to work, then it stands to reason that Pickfords was where he took the innards. They may have served as some sort of trophies to him, for all we know.
    Trophies are things that serialists save and bring out occasionally to re-experience their killings. If a killer lives alone, he will reasonably keep his trophies in his home, close to him and readily accesible.

    But if a killer lives with a family...? Then I´d submit that the risk of having the goods found may prompt such a killer to find a safe place away from that family to store his trophies.

    Likewise, if a killer lives with a family, he would arguably not want to come home bloodied.

    Solution? Find somewhere to clean up BEFORE you go home.

    You will see what I´m getting at now, Abby. I am suggesting that IF he took the innards as trophies - and we don´t know that - then he took them to Pickfords, where he had some safe place to store them, and where he could clean up unnoticed. I don´t think he would have brought the innards with him to Doveton Street after work.

    This is why I find a functioning and consistent timeline and pattern of movement in the Stride/Eddowes deeds:

    He kills Stride, but is disturbed.
    He leaves Berner Street and heads - along his old work route - towards the West, finding Eddowes in the vicinity of Mitre Square.
    He kills her, and cuts her uterus and kidney out.
    He produces a makeshift textile bag from her apron, to carry the parts in.
    He wraps the bag up, setting of smears of blood and fecal matter from his hands in the process. He may also have wiped his hands on the apron piece before turning it into an organ carrier.
    He shoves the parcel into his pocket, where blood from the organs seep into the cloth, making it wet with blood on a portion of the surface, as per Long.
    He sets off to Pickfords, where he has already stored Chapman´s uterus in a safe place, and adds his new trophies to the collection.
    He washes up, and leaves Pickfords, taking the rag with him, intent on discarding it somewhere along the road, far away from both Pickfords and Doveton Street.
    He chooses Goulston Street to do this, since there are deeply recessed doorways, allowing him to slip out of the view of any people on the street, dropping the rag on the floor.
    He makes his way home to Doveton Street, arriving there early in the morning, with the rest of the family fast aspleep. In the morning, he will tell them about how he has visited his mother on Cable Street, something that she will be able to confirm, should the need arise.

    This would explain why Long did not see the rag at 2.20 - because Lechmere had not yet passed Goulston Street at that stage. He would have had perhaps 500-600 yards from Mitre Square to Broad Street, so he may have spent 5-10 minutes getting there, perhaps taking us to around 1.55 at his arrival to Pickfords. Let´s say he spent fifteen-twenty minutes there, stowing away the innards and cleaning himself up reasonably, which would take us to around 2.15. Then he sets off for Goulston Street, another ten minute trek, arriving there in 2.25, five minutes after Long´s first check.

    These are just approximations, of course, but you will get the general idea, I trust. And in the end, he may well have gone straight from Mitre Square and home, Long simply missing the rag on his first visit to Goulston Street. It´s a world of possibilities. But if Lechmere normally killed en route to work, a useful guess is that he would have stored any trophies and cleaned up at Pickfords.

    All the best,
    Fisherman

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Monty View Post
      Blah, blah, blah.

      Same repetitive template post.

      You are deluded.

      Monty
      Me deluded, the only delusions to be found are with you and a handful of posters on here who are still living in the past, still relying on what your experts wrote all those years ago. Much of which has now proved to be wrong.

      Comment


      • Handful?

        Proven??

        Thank you for making my point.

        Monty
        Monty

        https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

        Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

        http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Monty View Post
          Handful?

          Proven??

          Thank you for making my point.

          Monty
          It is I that should be thanking you for giving me the opportunity of telling it like it really is.

          Perhaps the cabal should be re named the " The pat each other on the back society"

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
            It is I that should be thanking you for giving me the opportunity of telling it like it really is.

            Perhaps the cabal should be re named the " The pat each other on the back society"
            You need to thank me for a lot of things Trevor, like constantly correcting your errors and ill thought out theories, which are churned out to a gulible public all for the sake of profit

            If indeed they are your theories and not lifted off the page of some unsuspecting writer.

            Now hows that for "telling it like it really is"?

            Monty
            Monty

            https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

            Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

            http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

            Comment


            • Originally posted by pinkmoon View Post
              Let's face it people have only recently started to doubt if Liz stride and Mary Kelly were victims of jack the ripper also the story about Mary Kelly been pregnant seems to have been died in the early 1990s.Trevor does raise some interesting points which people should look at with an open mind too many people interested in this case will not budge on what they think is fact
              People have recently started to doubt if Liz and Mary were victims? Really? What made you draw that conclusion.

              Trevor does raise some interesting points indedd however he manipulates those points to fit his theory, conviniently leaving out case evidence and providing flawed 'experiments'.

              Can I ask, if its not too personal, how long have you been studying this case and do you have an investigatory background?

              Monty
              Monty

              https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

              Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

              http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

              Comment


              • Hi Lynn

                Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
                "what about Tabram and Nichols. Were there uteri removed?"

                I already told you that Polly did not. Forgive me if I suggest you read up on the reports.
                So you can`t provide another example of murdered women of a particular type been found like this. No worries, Lynn. I knew you couldn`t.

                But ALL those who had wounding in the pubic are likely had their legs open. Not a terribly difficult concept..
                I know. That`s my point.

                "A different killer then?"

                Why? They had the same parallel neck cuts...
                There are many similarities running through the majority of the Whitechapel Murder victims linking them together.
                You keep pointing out differences and claiming it points to a different killer.
                The only two victims you lump together (because your favoured suspect was detained at the time of the following murders) have huge differences in their wounds.

                "When they're removed from the body and placed by design like those things at Chapman's feet."

                What part of her body was that?
                Ah, Lynn`s favourite tactic of quoting out of contect when he can`t answer.

                Comment


                • Hi Lynn

                  Originally posted by lynn cates View Post

                  "I repeat, sudden heavy rain. . ."

                  Repeat it all you like. Perhaps someone will buy it--I shan't. There is no basis for calling it heavy, or even that it was raining at that time.
                  I really don`t expect you or anyone to "buy" it.
                  If I used the adjective heavy it was because it was the word used in the contemporary weather reports, and Lawende said at the inquest it was raining.

                  "In England we can equate that with down pour. Maybe not in Texas, or wherever."

                  In Texas, you may get an entire inch in just 5-10 minutes. Now THAT'S a downpour.
                  ..and it doesn`t rain on the moon but none of the Whitechapel Murders took place on the moon or in Texas (unlerss Trev`s got some modern expert on hand to tell us otherwise), so we should factor in the English weather.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
                    It`s quite obvious that the apron was removed at the mortuary so that it could be easily compared to the piece that was found.

                    It was therefroe listed by Collard as a possession, and not an article she was wearing.
                    It`s there in the possessions list as 1 piece of old white apron with repair (the repair reference is the clue as we know the apron she was wearing had been repaired.)



                    We`ve been over this before, all the wounds are accounted for.
                    Which cuts or stabs are you referring to please ?



                    Perhaps he cut it off her before he turned the clothing up.
                    He had already taken Chapman`s wooly scarf for some reason, so perhaps he was learning and had cut the apron piece ready to drop the organs in.
                    Hi Trevor

                    Which cuts and stab wounds do you refer to please ?
                    I can`t find your answer so forgive me for asking again.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Monty View Post
                      People have recently started to doubt if Liz and Mary were victims? Really? What made you draw that conclusion.

                      Trevor does raise some interesting points indedd however he manipulates those points to fit his theory, conviniently leaving out case evidence and providing flawed 'experiments'.

                      Can I ask, if its not too personal, how long have you been studying this case and do you have an investigatory background?

                      Monty
                      The experiments are far from flawed they are only flawed with those who like you wont or dont want to accept new theories. At least i have gone to great lengths to prove mine what lengths have you gone to with yours.

                      Take the recent discussion on the apron piece its been painful to sit here and watch certain posters keep coming out with all manner of suggestions appertaining to this, all trying to protect their own views when clearly their views are now questionable and are the ones that are flawed and all trying to shoot another down who goes against them.

                      I will back mine against any of yours any day

                      I had a conversation with another researcher just recently and he hit the nail on the head by saying that as soon as anyone outside a certain group comes out with anything that goes against the thinking of that small minority then the knives are soon out.

                      New issues should be openly discussed but some fear that just in case they turn out to be true.

                      Can I give you some advice if I were you I would stick to the uniform and lamps and police manuals because it seems your ability to assess and evaluate evidence is visibly impaired.

                      Comment


                      • Hullo Fisherman.

                        Just want to say, I appreciate your effort and exercise. How do you say? I like how you've taken a person's scenario, in this case Crossmere, and put it into the context of the murder. For clarity, so my head is not bitten off, I'm not saying I believe support refute etc. What I am saying is that the exercise in itself has merit. No conclusions, refusals etc. Just seeing how Crossmere could've gone about things as the murderer can provide insight into the whole situation itself. Thanks again.

                        p.s. Hey Fish, shortly, will you help me reattach my head?
                        Valour pleases Crom.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Monty View Post
                          People have recently started to doubt if Liz and Mary were victims? Really? What made you draw that conclusion.

                          Trevor does raise some interesting points indedd however he manipulates those points to fit his theory, conviniently leaving out case evidence and providing flawed 'experiments'.

                          Can I ask, if its not too personal, how long have you been studying this case and do you have an investigatory background?

                          Monty
                          The first time I came across anyone who seriously suggested Liz stride and Mary Kelly were not victims of jack the ripper was in Stewart Evans book I think that was about 1995 .No I don't have any investigatory experience I'm just a simple soul who reads books about jack the ripper(to many in my wifes opionion) and who has happened to have met the very likeable and entertaining Mike Barrett.Forgot to mention been interested in case all my life been reading about it for over 30 years
                          Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Digalittledeeperwatson View Post
                            Just want to say, I appreciate your effort and exercise. How do you say? I like how you've taken a person's scenario, in this case Crossmere, and put it into the context of the murder. For clarity, so my head is not bitten off, I'm not saying I believe support refute etc. What I am saying is that the exercise in itself has merit. No conclusions, refusals etc. Just seeing how Crossmere could've gone about things as the murderer can provide insight into the whole situation itself. Thanks again.

                            p.s. Hey Fish, shortly, will you help me reattach my head?
                            I´ll be there for you, my dear Watson! But I think that as you have not officially ascribed to a belief in Lechmere as the killer, you´ll be just fine. Thanks for your appreciative words, by the way!

                            The best,
                            Fisherman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
                              Hi Trevor

                              Which cuts and stab wounds do you refer to please ?
                              I can`t find your answer so forgive me for asking again.

                              The ones which are decsribed on her clothing and tend to show that she was stabbed at least 4 time through her outter clothing before the killer lifted them up.

                              “Chintz Skirt”-three flounces, brown button on waistband, jagged cut six inches long from waistband, left side of front, edges slightly bloodstained, also blood on bottom, front and back of skirt.

                              “Brown Linsey Dress Bodice- Black velvet collar, brown metal buttons down front, blood inside and outside of back of neck of shoulders, clean cut bottom of left side, five inches long from right to left.

                              “Grey Stuff Petticoat- White waist band cut one and a half inches long, thereon in front edges blood stained, blood stains at front and bottom of petticoat.

                              “Very old green Alpaca Skirt-Jagged cut ten and a half inches long, through waistband downwards, blood stained inside front undercut.

                              “Very old ragged blue skirt- Red flounce, light twill lining, jagged cut ten and a half inches long, through waistband downwards, blood stained inside, outside back and front.

                              Now if she had been wearing an apron tied round her waist and it still been in place when the body was stripped i would have expected that piece to have shown signs of being cut through having regards to the wounds which were inflicted mid line and across and downwards and be described in such a way.

                              Even the GS piece showed no signs of cuts so how did the killer manage to stab her 4 times around the mid line of the abdomen and downwards and not cause any cuts jagged or otherwise to it ?

                              The mortuary piece was in her property and listed as that. It was decsribed as an old white apron piece. Not as you might expect old white apron with jagged cuts etc.

                              Dr Brown describes the mortuary piece

                              “My attention was called to the apron it was the corner of the apron with the string attached”

                              The GS piece matched the mortuary piece so that had to be the bottom left or right. As a corner piece with one string attached how do you tie an apron with just one string and keep it in place?

                              The answer is she wasn't wearing an apron but in possession of two old white pieces of apron.

                              The Mitre Sq sketch shows no apron being worn

                              Comment


                              • Hullo Fisherman.

                                Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                                I´ll be there for you, my dear Watson! But I think that as you have not officially ascribed to a belief in Lechmere as the killer, you´ll be just fine. Thanks for your appreciative words, by the way!

                                The best,
                                Fisherman
                                Not a thing. It's funny cause before I had ever heard of him suggested as a suspect I was always like, who the hell is that guy? To be fair I AM suspicious of everyone and incredibly paranoid. Crossmere? Don't trust him. Schwartz? Don't trust him either. I don't trust any of them. No pictures of Abberline? Don't trust him. Don't blame him either. People can do voodoo with your picture. Maybe Abberline was paranoid too. I think I like him. Still don't trust him.
                                Valour pleases Crom.

                                Comment

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