piece of apron

[Trevor Marriott]

Why Christer?

Makes no sense whatsoever.


Witness statements, by numerous people, are clear.

Edddowes was wearing an apron.

Monty

As you well know witnesses are not always reliable and when you test the strength of those witnesses you obvioulsy seek to rely on as to when they gave that evidence and how they came to give that evidence it doesn't stand up to close scrutiny.

Whereas the factual and documentary evidence cannot be disputed.

I hope you wont mind me clarifying that for you !

[Jon Guy]

What reason would she have for standing in the rain no punters would be walking about.

Well, some people were kicked out of the Police cells at 1am with no money and a mile from home, and she certainly met someone between 1am and 1.34am. But you`re right, only a madman would be wandering around in the rain ... wait a minute !!!

None of her other clothing was described as being wet.

Okay, if it hadn`t got wet in the down pour she was standing in perhaps the killer wet it in a puddle to wash his hands

To many people trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

There`s only one or two doing this that I can see, Trevor.

[Trevor Marriott]

Well, some people were kicked out of the Police cells at 1am with no money and a mile from home, and she certainly met someone between 1am and 1.34am. But you`re right, only a madman would be wandering around in the rain ... wait a minute !!!


Okay, if it hadn`t got wet in the down pour she was standing in perhaps the killer wet it in a puddle to wash his hands


There`s only one or two doing this that I can see, Trevor.

You are clearly one of those then !

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

When it wasn't raining, that's when it had stopped."

And according to PC Smith, it stopped around 11.

That was a mile away, and besides this is London, England in late September,
as always it probably stopped and started raining all autumn.

[Jon Guy]

Testimony of Lewande -

I reside at No. 45, Norfolk-road, Dalston, and am a commercial traveller. On the night of Sept. 29, I was at the Imperial Club, Duke-street, together with Mr. Joseph Levy and Mr. Harry Harris. It was raining, and we sat in the club till half-past one o'clock, when we left.

And

http://www.casebook.org/victorian_london/weather.html

Monty

Thank you, Neil.

You see, Simon. We have got somewhere, even if it`s just that Trevor now knows it was raining in Duke St at 1.30am.

[Monty]

Numerous witnesses all saying the same thing Trevor,

The documentary evidence lists items with the body in situ. It is no indication that she was not wearing an apron at time of her death.

Just to re-clarify.

Monty

[Jon Guy]

You're all far too busy making it your business to disagree with each other.

No we`re not.

[Fisherman]

Why Christer?

Makes no sense whatsoever.


Witness statements, by numerous people, are clear.

Edddowes was wearing an apron.

Monty

Can´t see that I have opposed that view, Monty - of course Eddowes wore an apron.

Or is it something else you think makes little sense ...?

The best,
Fisherman

[Trevor Marriott]

Thank you, Neil.

You see, Simon. We have got somewhere, even if it`s just that Trevor now knows it was raining in Duke St at 1.30am.

It doesn't say it was raining when he left again. You only want to interpret things to suit your own argument

If it was raining why would they leave ?

[Jon Guy]

the fact that the "old piece of white apron" was listed on her possessions shows she was not wearing an apron when she was murdered

It`s quite obvious that the apron was removed at the mortuary so that it could be easily compared to the piece that was found.

It was therefroe listed by Collard as a possession, and not an article she was wearing.
It`s there in the possessions list as 1 piece of old white apron with repair (the repair reference is the clue as we know the apron she was wearing had been repaired.)

Likewise having regard to the position of the cuts made by the stabbing had she been wearing an apron then the piece left with the body should have like the other items of clothing showed signs of similar cuts

We`ve been over this before, all the wounds are accounted for.
Which cuts or stabs are you referring to please ?

I seem to recall the gs piece was described as being a corner piece with a string attached now that must have either been the top left it top right, again it doesn't add up to the killer cutting a piece off, especially as the clothes were drawn up and therefore any apron she might have been wearing would have then been closet to her skin and the most difficult piece of clothing for the killer to be able to cut

Perhaps he cut it off her before he turned the clothing up.
He had already taken Chapman`s wooly scarf for some reason, so perhaps he was learning and had cut the apron piece ready to drop the organs in.

[Trevor Marriott]

Numerous witnesses all saying the same thing Trevor,

The documentary evidence lists items with the body in situ. It is no indication that she was not wearing an apron at time of her death.

Just to re-clarify.

Monty

No it doesn't, stop making it up to suit your own argument, You know as well as i do what the police procedure was. The items were listed at the mortuary when the body was stripped.

The mortuary piece is clearly defined
"one old white pece of apron" not one old white apron with piece missing"

Besides look at it logically if you can without the blinkers on.

The GS piece was desribed as a corner piece with a string attached. That meant the killer would have to have pulled her clothing back down again after lifting it all up and then cutting the waistband at some point and then detaching the cut piece from the rest of the apron.

Come on wise up if the killer wanted a piece of anything he would have been spoilt for choice with all the other itmns of clothing which were more accessible than any apron.

[Monty]

This has been discussed ad nauseaum Trevor,

The evidence is clear in supporting that she was wearing an apron. Numerous witness statements, in situ drawing etc all lean toward this.

As for the process of removing the apron, you assume it was done post mutilation, not pre.

As for the soaking of a corner, it seems most likely the apron piece either temporarily rested partly in the abdominal cavity or some means near to the flow of blood.

As for an argument, I have none. I have no wild theory to support.

Monty

[Jon Guy]

It doesn't say it was raining when he left again. You only want to interpret things to suit your own argument

If it was raining why would they leave ?

Okay, they get up to leave the club at 1.30, they notice it is p#ssing down and wait 3 or 4 mins before leaving. Got it now ?

[lynn cates]

shower

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"That was a mile away, and besides this is London, England in late September, as always it probably stopped and started raining all autumn."

So a shower, then? Yes, those do come and go. Even PC Smith allowed for "a little rain" AFTER 11.00. But that is hardly pouring.

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

So a shower, then? Yes, those do come and go. Even PC Smith allowed for "a little rain" AFTER 11.00. But that is hardly pouring.

I`ve seen the rain that day described as sudden heavy rain so yes, pouring.