piece of apron

[Fisherman]

Hello Christer. Thanks.

"But once we realize that such a dumping would - given that it was not done by the body - have implied in which direction the killer took off, we may have identified a good reason to hang on to the rag."

We may indeed. But, given the eventual dumping at Goulston, might it not be love's labour lost?

Cheers.
LC

In a sense, yes - but it would be a different matter to do so at around 2.30 instead of doing it in immediate connection with the deed. I think you may agree with that?

The best,
Fisherman

[Wickerman]

Note the apron piece was also described as also being wet now how did it get wet under the archway?

It was wet with blood, Trevor.

"... The piece of apron, one corner of which was wet with blood. "
P.C. Long.

Wiping blood stains off your hands does not leave the cloth 'wet', but merely stained. Therefore, the apron had been in contact with something which was also 'wet' with blood, like an organ?

[Trevor Marriott]

It was wet with blood, Trevor.

"... The piece of apron, one corner of which was wet with blood. "
P.C. Long.

Wiping blood stains off your hands does not leave the cloth 'wet', but merely stained. Therefore, the apron had been in contact with something which was also 'wet' with blood, like an organ?

But if the uterus and the kidney had been put in that apron piece whether it was wet or dry when found it would have been heavily bloodstained. My pic shows that when you take out a uterus and a kidney from a live donor and wrap it up thats how the cloth becomes what part of this do you not understand

Even accepting that descriptive version the apron piece was no where describe in the same way that my pic shows.

Go back and read the various different descriptions of the apron piece. Even the official statements differ to those from the press. There is no way on this earth that those organs were taken away in that apron piece.

If you wiped your bloody knife on an apron piece or your hands the chances are that in one hours time it would not be wet but near to drying.

[Wickerman]

1. The ripper hid in the area/close to the area between Mitre Square and GS. That there was some safehouse/hideout available.

2. Returned to the area within the 1hour+ to leave the apron there.
Seemingly unlikely and illogical given the police presence at risk levels.

The first two above may actually be the same.

Can we assume your "seemingly unlikely" suggestion is based on a perfectly sane killer?

If so, what type of killer are you looking for, the one with the mind of a Banker, who is not prepared to take risks, or one who likes a challenge and to whom every risk is just fuel for the adrenaline?

Was 'Jack' a risk-taker, or not?

[Trevor Marriott]

Did it get wet under the archway (sic) ?

The apron became wet when Eddowes was walking around in it when it was raining.

You don't know that she was walking around in the rain.

I dont recall any mention of the rest of her clothing being wet after all if the apron was supposed to have got wet having regards to its position when being worn the rest of her must have been soaked through.

Isn't it a natural thing to shelter from the rain ?

[Wickerman]

Thanks for the welcome Monty. Stay? I'll be here 'terrorising' at least for the Autumn.

I hope so, and it is encouraging to exchange views with someone who has actually studied the case.
(Some new posters clearly have not)

Make yourself at home Thomas

[Jon Guy]

You don't know that she was walking around in the rain.

I dont recall any mention of the rest of her clothing being wet after all if the apron was supposed to have got wet having regards to its position when being worn the rest of her must have been soaked through.

Isn't it a natural thing to shelter from the rain ?

Well, she was standing outside when it poured down at 1.30am.
We know she was walking about just after 1am.

There`s sheltering inside a club, and there is sheltering at the corner of Church Passage.

[Wickerman]

But if the uterus and the kidney had been put in that apron piece whether it was wet or dry when found it would have been heavily bloodstained.

Gordon-Brown described "blood spots", PC Long said: "...there appeared blood stains on it one portion was wet..."

Your photo's did not show 'heavy' blood stains, you actually proved that the result is just how the apron was described. If anything, your demonstration backfired on your argument.

[Trevor Marriott]

Well, she was standing outside when it poured down at 1.30am.
We know she was walking about just after 1am.

There`s sheltering inside a club, and there is sheltering at the corner of Church Passage.

Where does it say it was pouring with rain.

Would anyone stand outside in the pouring rain prostitute or punter ?

[Jon Guy]

Where does it say it was pouring with rain.

Would anyone stand outside in the pouring rain prostitute or punter ?

In the inquest reports? Lawende and co. hung back 3 or 4 mins in the club waitng for the rain to pass.

Most people would seek shelter wherever they could find it. .

But anyway, as Jon has suggested, Long was describing the apron as wet with blood. Although, it probably was wet with rain if Eddowes was standing outside when it poured down at 1.30

[lynn cates]

to know, not to opine

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"It stopped raining in Duke St at 1.34"

Indeed? Can you direct me to this? We know that Lawende and co went to the club on account of the rain, and when they left, it was NOT raining. But do we know when it had stopped?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

sense

Hello Christer. Thanks.

"it would be a different matter to do so at around 2.30 instead of doing it in immediate connection with the deed. I think you may agree with that?"

We DO agree--at that time it would make no sense at all.

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"It stopped raining in Duke St at 1.34"

Indeed? Can you direct me to this? We know that Lawende and co went to the club on account of the rain, and when they left, it was NOT raining. But do we know when it had stopped?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn

They were always at the Club.
I didn`t realsie they went in becasue of the rain?

When it wasn`t raining, that`s when it had stopped.

[Trevor Marriott]

In the inquest reports? Lawende and co. hung back 3 or 4 mins in the club waitng for the rain to pass.

Most people would seek shelter wherever they could find it. .

But anyway, as Jon has suggested, Long was describing the apron as wet with blood. Although, it probably was wet with rain if Eddowes was standing outside when it poured down at 1.30

Pc Longs official statement “I found a portion of a woman`s apron, there appeared blood stains on it, one portion was wet”

Note one portion not the whole piece

Pc Long as quoted in The Telegraph Inquest report “I found a portion of white apron, there were recent stains of blood on it”

Pc Long as quoted in The Times Inquest report “I found a portion of a woman`s apron, there were recent stains of blood on it, one corner was wet with blood”

Note one corner. How do you get one corner wet with blood certainly not by carrying organs in it and not by wiping your hands or a bloody knife.

Dr Browns states the piece was spotted with blood

Definition of stain, spot mark or discoloration !

Point 2

What reason would she have for standing in the rain no punters would be walking about. As you said Lawende and others were sheltering from the rain and it couldnt have been much rain as they soon moved on.

None of her other clothing was described as being wet

To many people trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

[lynn cates]

cessation of rain

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Fair enough point.

"When it wasn't raining, that's when it had stopped."

And according to PC Smith, it stopped around 11.

Cheers.
LC