Abberline solved the GSG

[c.d.]

ESTIMATED time of death not the actual time of death. I just recently read an article by a forensic pathologist which I will post if I can find. In it, he talks about how difficult it is even today to accurately determine the time of death even with all the types of tests that are available. So I would have to take an ETD from 1888 with a big grain of salt.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

That assumes that the club needed a story as opposed to simply cooperating with the police. You also have to give kudos to Schwartz for being willing to lie to the police in a murder investigation.

"IF he is telling the truth, OF COURSE BSM killed Liz."

I think he was telling the truth as he saw it but I have to disagree with your conclusion.

c.d.

[Wickerman]

I'd dispute this just as strongly, Jon.

The presence of cachous in her hands is an argument in favour of - NOT against - the premise that she was fending off an attacker when she died.

If she knew she was about to be attacked, apart from screaming her head off, why would she not have dropped anything she had in her hands in order to fend off her attacker?
Women, tend to use their hands and especially their nails in their own defense, have you not heard?

I have never once read even in a modern forensics report that the victim held on to something trivial because she knew she was about to be attacked.
That is just plain inconsistent with common sense.

She would have released them immediately had she been taken entirely by surprise.

How on earth could you possibly arrive at such a conclusion. It was a packet of cachous not gold dust.

[c.d.]

I would add that if you are trying to fend someone off, the tendency is to try to push them away with an open palm. That would seem to make it hard to hold on to the cachous.

c.d.

[Ben]

If she knew she was about to be attacked, apart from screaming her head off, why would she not have dropped anything she had in her hands in order to fend off her attacker?

She didn't need to drop it.

She could easily have clenched her fists containing the cachous and fought her attacker that way. You're objection to this on the grounds that women don't fight like that because they only use their nails is too silly to bother engaging with.

I have never once read even in a modern forensics report that the victim held on to something trivial because she knew she was about to be attacked.

What you will have read - if you've read any at all - are accounts of women using whatever objects they had at their disposal to fend of their attackers. No, I'm not suggesting Stride used the cachous as a weapon, but it is perfectly plausible that she retained the item in her fist as she attempted to fight off her attacker.

It was a packet of cachous not gold dust.

It might well have been gold dust to a woman in Stride's circumstances.

[GregBaron]

Hungarian ghoulash

Hello CD. Thanks.

Really quite simple. I don't believe his story. But I don't mind "playing along" to see where the rot leads us. IF he is telling the truth, OF COURSE BSM killed Liz. End of story. I believe that is one of the reasons he was concocted.

What the club needed was:

1. A killer who appears at 12.45--the time the AF article claimed she died.

2. A bully.

3. A Gentile who was an anti-Semite.

Sure, they over-egged the pudding a bit, but only the lads at Leman figured that out.

Cheers.
LC

Does this mean you think a crazy Jew from the club offed Stride Lynn?

As for the cachous controversy, I agree with Mr. Wickerman, Stride showed no
signs of preparing for an attack..

Not sure if Schwartz speaketh with a forked tongue...


Greg

[lynn cates]

paranoia

Hello CD. Thanks.

"That assumes that the club needed a story as opposed to simply cooperating with the police."

They DID cooperate with the police. But put yourself in their shoes. They came (many of them) from Russian pogroms. Read about their investigation by the police. They would be rife with paranoia. They at least THOUGHT they needed a story.

"You also have to give kudos to Schwartz for being willing to lie to the police in a murder investigation."

Why kudos?

"I think he was telling the truth as he saw it but I have to disagree with your conclusion."

Why? IF there is a BSM, look no further--he is your killer.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

fresh cachous defense

Hello Jon.

"If she knew she was about to be attacked, apart from screaming her head off, why would she not have dropped anything she had in her hands in order to fend off her attacker?
Women, tend to use their hands and especially their nails in their own defense, have you not heard?

I have never once read even in a modern forensics report that the victim held on to something trivial because she knew she was about to be attacked.
That is just plain inconsistent with common sense."

Precisely. It suggests a Monty Python sketch.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

agree

Hello CD.

"I would add that if you are trying to fend someone off, the tendency is to try to push them away with an open palm. That would seem to make it hard to hold on to the cachous."

Indeed. Are we agreeing again?

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

"You also have to give kudos to Schwartz for being willing to lie to the police in a murder investigation."

Why kudos?

I give him kudos because he was willing to take one for the team. The police tend not to take kindly to being lied to particularly in a murder investigation. He could easily have found himself in some serious hot water. Had it been me, and it was suggested I go out and lie to the police, I think I would have responded "how about YOU go out and lie to the police."

"I think he was telling the truth as he saw it but I have to disagree with your conclusion."

Why? IF there is a BSM, look no further--he is your killer.

Ah, if it were only that easy. I keep forgetting that you don't believe in Jack. My bad.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

no fist

Hello Ben.

"No, I'm not suggesting Stride used the cachous as a weapon, but it is perfectly plausible that she retained the item in her fist as she attempted to fight off her attacker."

Ah, but they were NOT in her fist. They were between her thumb and forefinger. How can one ward off an attack like that?

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello CD.

"I would add that if you are trying to fend someone off, the tendency is to try to push them away with an open palm. That would seem to make it hard to hold on to the cachous."

Indeed. Are we agreeing again?

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Well we seem to agree up to a point but then our roads diverge.

Now if there were no BS man, who exactly do you think killed Liz?

c.d.

[lynn cates]

Lave

Hello Greg. Thanks.

"Does this mean you think a crazy Jew from the club offed Stride Lynn?"

Possibly. Have you looked closely at Joseph Lave's story? He was in the yard and Berner from 12.30 until 12.40. Eygle was ALSO there at 12.40. Lave NEVER mentions Eygle. Lave also goes to the street--no Liz, no PC Smith. Suspicious? Yes.

"As for the cachous controversy, I agree with Mr. Wickerman, Stride showed no signs of preparing for an attack."

Precisely.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

romance

Hello CD. Thanks.

"The police tend not to take kindly to being lied to particularly in a murder investigation. He could easily have found himself in some serious hot water."

How? What could they have found that would prove him a liar?

"Ah, if it were only that easy."

But it IS that easy. We complicate because we seek to perpetuate a myth.

"I keep forgetting that you don't believe in Jack. My bad."

Not bad; merely romantic.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

A myth? Possibly. But there is that pesky little matter of five women all of whom had their throat cut.

c.d.